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Big formations or more activations?
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 10:40 pm 
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(Pariah Press @ Aug. 27 2007,18:08)
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(Hena @ Aug. 27 2007,11:58)
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Edit: How did you and your friend like it though?

I can see why people prefer the ruleset to 40K's, or even NetEpic's.  Things like supporting fire, the ability to move 90 cm in a turn, the lovely blast marker mechanic add so much depth to the game.  I thought it was much more interesting and challenging than 40K (which I've been playing a lot of lately) but it was frustrating to start losing from turn 1 and keep losing for the rest of the game.

I can't emphasise how much that Marines are not a good starting army; Playing Marines as a newcomer to Epic is really throwing yourself in at the tactical deep end.

Oh, and as soon as you can, get a Thunderhawk or two. :)

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 3:40 am 
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(Ginger @ Aug. 27 2007,21:06)
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and don't forget it takes two hackdown hits to kill each Marine (because of the "They Shall Know No Fear" rule)

Arrrgh!  Really??  Oh well; next time!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2007 11:40 am 
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(Pariah Press @ Aug. 28 2007,03:40)
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(Ginger @ Aug. 27 2007,21:06)
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and don't forget it takes two hackdown hits to kill each Marine (because of the "They Shall Know No Fear" rule)

Arrrgh! ?Really?? ?Oh well; next time!

Check out 5.1.1 on page 74 very carefully. ?Also note there are FAQ and experimental ideas around this as well - check the SG forum.

As E&C says, it is a hard army to master well, but if you want to use it, do go through some of the training scenarios taking time over the various elements of the game both to get a clear understanding of the rules, to start learning some of the elementary tactics and to learn how each race differs (see Ork rules on page 107, and the different races in section 6 on pages 130, 134 and 138).

It really is not a simple case of rushing forward and hitting things (even if you are an Ork :p ) - which is one of the great appeals of Epic over 40K.




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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 7:55 am 
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Yes, I was always more of a "stand back with as many big guns as I could buy and blast away at the enemy" sort of player.  That seems to be alive and well in the new Epic, as afar as I can tell!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2007 9:21 am 
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There are a number of different styles of play ranging from the Siegemasters artillery shoot (as you describe) to the Ork "Uge mob swamping the enemy with numbers, the Eldar hit-and-run, and the Marine "surgical strike". Each have their appeal, and some are easier than others to pull off. However, while these are basic tactics and styles, working out combinations starts to turn the game into something like chess, with move and counter-move, each side trying to get their formations in the best place to support or defend against a knock-out assault,

Even the largest formations and titans can be killed in one activation with sufficient support, and the correct use of "Commander" (2.1.2) and defining your enemy as "intermingled" (1.12.10) can sometimes have dramatic effects, completely destroying several formations at a time.

Try "clipping" an enemy to break it, then assaulting the broken formation again - if it loses when broken, the entire enemy formation dies irrespective of its size! (Clipping is where you position your forces to engage a few enemy with most of your formation, to ensure that you win the assault resolution)

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 10:14 am 
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I think that I needed some sort of blast weapons, cause my opponent had really tightly-packed formations, which made clipping impossible.  I'll try to remember the intermingled formations, though. That's important, I can tell!  

 So, was I correct in thinking that units which are in base-to-base contact with an enemy may still be killed by FF?

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Ginger
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 3:47 pm 
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(Pariah Press @ Aug. 31 2007,10:14)
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So, was I correct in thinking that units which are in base-to-base contact with an enemy may still be killed by FF?

I am not sure of the context or question here, so will try to give a general answer:- Units in B-B contact normally use their CC factors when fighting in an assault (exceptions below). However, the assault produces a "pool" of hits that are allocated front-to-back starting with those units in B-B with the enemy, so it is quite possible for hits that were generated by FF factors to be allocated to units in B-B contact.

Note that Macro-weapons are allocated separately, normally front-to-back in the same way, so units in B-B could be assigned both normal and MW hits. Also in the standard "book" rules, CC MW hits might then lose the "target" if the enemy in B-B has already died.

War Engines are an exception to this (see section 3), because they can choose to use FF factors when in an assault, even if they are in B-B, but here, their CC hits must be assigned to units in contact, while their FF hits must be assigned to units up to 15 cms away (nearest to furthest).

Finally Units that are "Skimmers" may elect to 'pop-up' and fight as FF units even though they are nominally in B-B contact.

-----------------------------
As for "packed targets" as Hena notes, Whirlwinds or other units with "Barrage"weapons that use templates are very usefull. (they are the ones that have BP1 etc as their firepower factor)

Equally, 40K has "flanks" so use manoeuver to mass your forces against a few of his. The more you can pile up the odds, the more likely you will kill enemy formations with limited retaliation.

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Sat Sep 01, 2007 3:11 am 
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(Ginger @ Aug. 31 2007,15:47)
QUOTE

(Pariah Press @ Aug. 31 2007,10:14)
QUOTE
So, was I correct in thinking that units which are in base-to-base contact with an enemy may still be killed by FF?

I am not sure of the context or question here, so will try to give a general answer:- Units in B-B contact normally use their CC factors when fighting in an assault (exceptions below). However, the assault produces a "pool" of hits that are allocated front-to-back starting with those units in B-B with the enemy, so it is quite possible for hits that were generated by FF factors to be allocated to units in B-B contact.

Okay, good.  That's how I was playing it.  

 I always used to depend on the Imperial Guard's artillary to support my space marines, and now my poor space marines can't use basilisks and bombards any more!  Well, as a result, I have no whirlwinds yet.  If I play before I get some, I guess I'll have to use Marauders and my really crappy little Thunderhawk I got for $4 new.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Sun Sep 02, 2007 12:34 pm 
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Don't use Marauders they're rubbish. :)

Proxy them as Thunderbolt fighters if you have to.

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Pariah Press
 Post subject: Big formations or more activations?
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 2:44 am 
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Bloody hell.  I guess I'll just play Squats next time!

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