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QuintAnn - understood that we disagree, however, as written it can only be interpretted one way.
Dysartes - The pesimistic side of me tends to agree with you. As much as he and I do NOT see eye to eye, I really want to give PG the benefit of the doubt. It was discussed time and time again on the old forum, and since the two WE's were as good/better than a SL IG warhound, it seemed logical to put them in with the titan/flyer restrictions. He seemed to agree - though his responses can leave one unsure of his intentions, I agree.
NH - the 0-2 restriction is not enough. If we all want to create war engines that have 2 void shields and three damage capacity plus give them a nice weapon load out - but call them WE instead of Titans - that's fine, but we are just circumventing the Titan restriction rule. That's what OGM and ATML are for - not the BL.
Regarding the Flamer template vs. the blast - the blast is longer than 30cm - unless I'm mistaken. The rules for placing the blast say that only one model/unit has to be within range of all shooting models contributing to the blast. If you have 2 Ferals that are getting a 6 point barrage, they are going to have more than one template to place, and the template's width must be taken into account, further templates can continue to cause havok even further away. In addition, the Feral has a higher potential to cause damage as it's not only ignore cover, but in addition to what the AMTL variant of warhound does NOT have, the Feral has a Macro-Weapon blast. Two of these buggers only make it worse. Furthermore, the additional dice rolled in combat allow for a potential to get a really good roll beyond what a normal warhound can do. The gatling gun is equally good vs. ap and AT targets where the normal warhound is not - its ap3 but at5 make it nowhere near the tank hunter a feral can be.
From someone whom which plays against chaos as much as I play them in epic, I personally feel the feral is under costed and 50 points seems to cheap for the benefit one gets out of these things. 75 points difference would probably be closer to on target.
To change modes a bit: I still don't understand why the banelord is the only warlord class titan that has no chance of blowing up in its crit. The standard seems to be set and this thing forces you to rid it of all of its wounds. No chance to get the luck shot like the other titans.
I'm having a hard time seeing the net reduction in power to the list. I did notice forlorn hope lost the cult marines and helltalon lost the ignore cover, but there was also a 50 point adjustment on the helltalon. The Obliterators wend down by 25 points each and we thought they were amazingly strong at 75 points each - I mean 3x AP/AT/AA 5+, fearless, teleport, RA, etc... and its not a LIGHT VEHICLE? (see Tau thread on the crisis - some seem to think a crisis needs to be LV because an AT shot affects its formation more than an average infantry trooper squad - LOL, but the Obliterator remains infantry??? No balance here whatsoever) The new deamon summoning is going to take some getting used to. I hope its a net reduction in power. I'm glad to see daemons become paid for, but it looks like the daemons in play for a given formation can now continue to grow turn after turn if you don't fire at the formation. It also looks like in most cases, one is going to be able to count on a minimum of 4 deamons per summoning taking the median summoned from 7 to 8 now. The lack of blast markers still amazes me with this list.
I previously and still fear that the power in the chaos list will ultimately turn more people away from the Epic system. I hope I'm being overly paranoid. I can tell you that our group finally wouldn't play against anyone playing a v3.4 list as nobody could beat the list - regardless of who was playing it. We have some renewed interest and hope regarding the v3.5 list. I'm optimistic and don't want to judge the entire list before I've played and played against it a few times, but I can't help but be apprehensive here a bit.
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Rob
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