Tactical Command | View topic

Page 2 of 3

[ 33 posts ]

Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

View unanswered posts | View active topics View unread posts | View new posts | View your posts

SM list

iblisdrax

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2004 2:47 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2003 10:54 pm
Posts: 3381
Location: First star to the right, and straight on till morning.

hmmm....only problem with that is you could be slowing the game down with this particular change. Me personally, I prefer the One formation, One target rules, as it keeps the game simpler and faster flowing. But, that is just me.

my 2cents,

iblisdrax

_________________
"Have Leman Reuss, will travel"

"Hallo. My name is Indigo Montoya. You killed my father prepare to die!"

Top

dafrca

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 2:21 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA

Quote (iblisdrax @ 08 2004 Sep.,06:47)

Me personally, I prefer the One formation, One target rules, as it keeps the game simpler and faster flowing. ?But, that is just me.

No, it is not just you.

I too like the one formation, one target simplistic idea. I will never ask a set of rules to be completly "realistic". I know sometimes rules must give up realism for playability, and quite frankly I want a simple game to have fun with. :laugh:

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

Top

Mojarn Piett

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 8:46 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
Posts: 5455
Location: Finland

To each his own I guess. But I don't think it would slow the game down, at least by much. OTOH it would certainly add more realism to the target selection. I have played ASL and am not fond of TOO detailed rules but there are times when the "simplicity" factor gets more weight than it should.

Like Legion 4 usually says: do whatever works for you. I think that should be the first line in the wargamer's first book of indoctrinations.

_________________
I don't know and I let who care. -J.S.

Top

Xavi

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:12 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Agreed and agreed. Simplicity is ok as long as it is ok for the gaming experience but in case it does not model well what should be happening with a minimum of common sense yoi might consider increasing the overall length of the battle by 15-20 minutes (in a 4 hour battle that is not much) and get a much more comprehensive result with minimal chages. I would go for that.

Still, if we do NOT apply any house rules, it seems that adding leman russes or other stuff like that to an infantry company is poo. For an infantry (not mechanized) company, stuff like demolishers *might* be good since they add to ther firepower of the squad, specially in firefights when you want to conquer an enemy entrenched position, but not as the stop-gap option to get a shot at tanks that treaten your formation, that it would be my idea of why to take them

So the rules are quite weird here.

And yup, do whatever works for you. As long as you have fun it is good! :cool:

Xavi

_________________
Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.

Top

Warmaster Nice

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 11:56 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Sep 30, 2003 9:15 pm
Posts: 7948
Location: Denmark

L4's school of thought can never be questioned. We also use a bunch of house rules to suit our tastes.

I prefer to only allow SOME formations to act independantly. After all the IG is traditionally not a very flexible force. Leave that to armies like Space Marines and Eldar. Even though ity may not allways be common sense it is sometimes nesescary in order to differentiate armies and give them unique characteristics. One of the main problems in E40k was IMO that you had no real sense of command structure for each army. You could have IG or Ork formations of only a few tanks and Eldar hosts bigger than an IG company!

Though it may make the IG less effective I prefer to have huge formations grinding the enemy down rather than many smalll flexible "realistic" formations. It just feels a bit more fluffy IMO.

But like I said: do what suits your tastes.

Cheers!

_________________
Sofa General

Nobody expects the Inquisition!!!
http://theepiclounge.wordpress.com/

Top

dafrca

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 3:55 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA

Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 09 2004 Sep.,00:46)

To each his own I guess. But I don't think it would slow the game down, at least by much.

Xavi suggested allowing each "squad" in a formation to select and fire at it's own target. So let's see, that means I could have ten different targets with ten different combat resolution calculations to do for just my first tank formation?

I can not see how anyone could argue this would not slow the game down. Should we allow this, the number of each seperate calculations per activation would grow quite large, and slow for very little aded "realism". The very game mechanic we are using is based on massed fire is effective fire.

Of course if that is what you think of as fun, well then have at it. :;):

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

Top

Legion 4

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:01 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

Well ... my work is done here ... :;):

Thanks Boyz !

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Top

Xavi

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:02 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Nope, I suggest each PLATOON (6 infantry bases, or 3 tanks) to shot at different target. That is 2 formations for an basic infantry company, 3 for a tank company. If you rake a tank platoon in the infantry company, then it would be an other one as well (can select an other target).

So not as many as you say

Regards,

Xavi

_________________
Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.

Top

Legion 4

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 4:28 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36989
Location: Ohio - USA

The way we do it is that formations are only integrated during transport. Using SM1 TO&Es generally with some modifications as required. Examples: IG Tac Det is 9 Stands, when activated, they would move, fire etc. A L/Russ det. is 3-5 tanks, when activated they would do the same. No unit would consist of both vehicles and infantry etc., save for during transport and a few exceptions like a Commissar Stand with Rhino. The rule we made for special troops (as in SM2) like Chaplins, Libs, Medics, etc., that they can be attached to standard units. Like a Medic stand and his Rhino may be attached to an SM Tac Det of 8 Stands and in this case they would activate as one unit. Of course there is a lot more units to activate, generally.

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Top

dafrca

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:45 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:02 pm
Posts: 10956
Location: Burbank, CA, USA

Quote (Xavi @ 09 2004 Sep.,08:02)

Regards,

Xavi

Xavi,

So when you wrote:
Well, I was proposing even more flexibility than that, with each squadron acting on their own like an independent formation...

You ment Platoon. OK so it is a lower number, but it still will slow the game down. My two tank companies go from two activations with two combat resolutions to two activations with eight combat resolutions (three platoons plus command tank each).

To be clear, I am not saying your idea is "bad" but what I am saying is let's not think it will not slow down the game, it will. Why am I so sure, because we play tested split fire in many different forms durring the playtest of the original rules. I was one on the side for allowing split fire.

We tried split by type (All At to one target and all AP to another. We tried allowing each unit to fire, we tried troops and trasports, we tried only Super Heavies and Titans, we tried lots of different combos. Each had some good points and some bad, but all of them added to the time needed to finish an activation, thus the normal game took longer. The one formation/one target took the least amount of time.

But please play as you see fit.

dafrca

_________________
"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
- Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

Top

Xavi

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Thu Sep 09, 2004 5:57 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Usual problems with terminology, heh. A squadron in the spanish army (the one I based my model on) is a platoon in the US army.

I was thinking more along the lines of assigning the HQ as an "upgrade" to one of the platoons. That would mean that a tank company would be 3 groups, not 4: 3, 3 and 4 tanks. An infantry company would be 2 (infantry platoons, one of them containing the HQ) or 4, depending if you turned the transports into independent units or not after the dudes dismouted.

And yes, of course it would slow the game down. It would also be more realistic IMO and I would be glad to pay the price for slower game but with better "reasoning". But well, that's me. We are already beating a dead cow here

Regards,

Xavi

_________________
Commanding legions forward while sitting in a nice armchair.

Top

Jow

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 2:42 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 40

3k Ultramarine list

Tactical Det w/Supreme commander, Rhinos

Tactical Det w/ Rhinos

Devastator Det w/ Rhinos

Devastator Det w/ Rhinos

Bike Det w/ Chaplain

Bike Det w/ Captain

Whirlwind Det

Warhound Det w/ 2 warhounds

T-Bolt Det

T-Bolt Det

Total: 2800 points.

Now, I have no idea what to do with my last 200 points. Please note that I will not bring Hunters, as they suck. Im willing to bring any other unit in the SM army though, but Hunters just make me angry when I look at them. I've considered bringing speeders, more T-Bolts, more bikes, tossing in a pair of landraiders, a scout det, or a hoard of razorbacks. Any ideas?

_________________
http://bluegrassgamers.com/

Come check us out, cause we rock.

Top

Chroma

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 3:01 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada

Razorbacks with the Devs add much needed bulk and fibre! You might even put a character in there for Firefights.

What don't you like about Hunters? With 60cm range it's the longest direct fire weapon the Marines have.

Lately our local straight Marine player (the other two play Blood Angels and White Scars) has taken to bulking up units with Hunters, Razorbacks, and Vindicators (we let them have 30cm movement) and the mix is a nightmare to deal with! Bulked up Tacticals and Predator detachments finally defeated my OGBM army with constant high volume crossfires. Was cool to see!

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Top

Jow

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2005 4:48 am

Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Aug 03, 2005 8:30 pm
Posts: 40

What don't you like about Hunters? With 60cm range it's the longest direct fire weapon the Marines have.

I could write an essay

-Its 75 points. I could get 3 Razorbacks with twin lascannons for that.

-You can't bring very many of them where you want to bring them, ie only 1 per formation.

-They have easily the least usefulness of any AA unit in the game right now. Compare it side by side with Firestorms, Fireprisms, Obliterators(WTF?! btw), Hydras, Flak Wagonz, etc. It loses every last one of those comparisons. Id rather have each and every one of those units before a hunter.

-Its long range often means that it is the only unit that can be supressed, so enemy AC just skirt outside my range making faces at me. This makes the extra 15cm useless.

-They cost the same per model as a T-Bolt. A T-Bolt can serve so many more purposes than a Hunter for the same cost.

As for your suggestions, I'd probly bring Vindicators if they moved 30 cm. Dunno if they'd be worth the points, but I love the models/fluff enough to bring them if they could atleast keep up with the other units.

Razorbacks are a definite possiblity as well, I just cant decide if tossing 8 of them in my list would be a good idea.

Predators...Not going to happen. My Chaos friends laughs when I bring them(not making this up, He ACTUALLY laughs

)

Im seriously thinking about speeders for 200 points....they'd be a nice addition as a third unit in an assault with the bikes.

_________________
http://bluegrassgamers.com/

Come check us out, cause we rock.

Top

Sergeant Mike

Post subject: SM list

Posted: Sun Aug 21, 2005 7:39 pm

Brood Brother

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2005 11:39 pm
Posts: 18
Location: Memphis, Tennessee

I would consider swapping out the Rhinos for Landraiders in one of the Devastator detachments. I've found them to be pretty good, mobile firepower, if a bit on the brittle side defensively.

_________________
Black Sun Legion Space Marines: No heresy; no mercy.

Top

Print view

Previous topic | Next topic

Page 2 of 3

[ 33 posts ]

Go to page Previous 1, 2, 3 Next

Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:

SM list

Who is online