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Great Community Here! - Thanks!
nealhunt	Post subject: Great Community Here! - Thanks! Posted: Thu May 08, 2003 9:23 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	>> Therefore you "teleporting" forces dont reach 1000 points. 750 points in drop pods 350 points for detachment (250 deploying) in Thawk (100) Another 350 if you go with 2 That's 1450.  Admittedly less than the 2 companies I thought you meant (2850). >> Swoop and scoop became RARE after players learned this counter tactic. Admittedly, most of my SM play and the two tournaments I played in were pre-flak rules (ca 1991-1993).  Counter Thawks and drop pods without using flak and I will be heartily impressed.  It was dicey before, but after the Space Wolves junk came out, there was no point in playing with SM forces because even someone playing, say, Dark Angels, would take a detachment of blood claws (or two or three) as allies. Also a problem in the pre-flier days was combined SM-IG forces.  Cheap IG Hvy companies and artillery that were difficult to attack because of the marines. >> The point is Neal, we have been having a discussion on TACTICS, Which I really didn't want to do, so I guess I shouldn't have asked. I don't remember flak being nearly as effective as you claim,  though I was happy with it at the time.  I seem to recall it was a significant improvement, but still left a problem.  Anyway, I can't really argue it almost 10 years after I last played it. Though I don't remember enough about the flier rules to argue it, I remember there being something I found very poor about them.  Did Netepic change that, too? At this point, I would probably give NetEpic a try, but just the thought of SM/TL still gives me a bad taste in my mouth. _________________ Neal
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primarch

Post subject: Great Community Here! - Thanks! Posted: Fri May 09, 2003 12:48 am

Brood Brother Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am Posts: 27069 Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA

Hi! 750 points in drop pods 350 points for detachment (250 deploying) in Thawk (100) Another 350 if you go with 2 That's 1450.  Admittedly less than the 2 companies I thought you meant (2850). I wasn't counting the two T-hawk detachments since they are bought as battle companies, but the breakdown would be about that much. Admittedly, most of my SM play and the two tournaments I played in were pre-flak rules (ca 1991-1993).  Counter Thawks and drop pods without using flak and I will be heartily impressed.  It was dicey before, but after the Space Wolves junk came out, there was no point in playing with SM forces because even someone playing, say, Dark Angels, would take a detachment of blood claws (or two or three) as allies. Also a problem in the pre-flier days was combined SM-IG forces.  Cheap IG Hvy companies and artillery that were difficult to attack because of the marines.

Flak weapons eliminate the abuses of "swoop and scoop" for sure and made combined arms more important. You can counter it without flak weapons, but admittedly the armies get pretty cheesy to do this.

In net epic allies are not allowed as a standard rule. It was definitely cheesy to combine SM/IG it made a way too good army. On the other hand it was very entertaining to play against it to see if you could beat it.


I don't remember flak being nearly as effective as you claim,  though I was happy with it at the time.  I seem to recall it was a significant improvement, but still left a problem.  Anyway, I can't really argue it almost 10 years after I last played it.


You may remember mostly IG flak which had a lower to hit value, but made up for it in many attack dice. The full detachment gave you 12 attack dice, not bad. Firestorms were the best 4+ to hit, -2 modifier and 2 attack dice each, very effective. It most certainly transformed the game and eliminated the death from above syndrome so many players liked to abuse.


Though I don't remember enough about the flier rules to argue it, I remember there being something I found very poor about them.  Did Netepic change that, too?


Netepic has gone full circle on the issue of fliers. We have gone from real involved rules to the current real simple ones. I gather from playtest data and general opinions that the simpler approach is better. They are somewhat closer to what the original rules were but it clears up who can engage fliers as well as who can fire at them. It works pretty good.


At this point, I would probably give NetEpic a try, but just the thought of SM/TL still gives me a bad taste in my mouth.


Well, if you didn't like SM, perhaps netepic is not your cup of tea, but it is a different experience from "straight" SM. If you do try it out let me know, input is always appreciated.

Primarch