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Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?

 Post subject: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2020 2:36 am 
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So, with most of my Salamander minis ordered, I've started thinking about what else I want. Minervan Tank Legion is pretty cool, and I think I'd be happy enough with them.

However, I'm quite liking the EpicAU Word Bearers, and would definitely enjoy putting together a force.

The catch is, I'd mostly be using them against either NetAU Biel Tan or my own NetAU Salamanders. So I'm wondering, to what extent would this make for a decent game in a casual environment? The impression I have is that the EpicAU lists are more powerful than the default NetAU ones.


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 9:52 am 
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Not an expert on AU lists, but for want of any other answers and to encourage anyone to correct me: the heresy lists use the same rules, but are not made to be points/balance compatible with 'normal' lists.

If you want to play salamanders vs word bearers, use heresy lists for both, then that's fine. Or use Normal lists for both, then that's fine (don't think word bearers have fully play-tested normal list, but can use codex or chaos marines, just because they don't have a named list doesn't mean you cant play them).

For the purposes of this 'normal' = netEA/EUK/AU lists which in *most* cases are close enough to be compatible.

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 10:04 am 
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Would be interested to see how you get along Sable Wyvern.

I'm collecting a pre-heresy World Eater force, using the Epic Heresy AU lists, to go against the standard Epic Armageddon ork list - super casual though, mostly just narrative play with friends (so as long as the rules line up and you don't have units of gretchin wiping out terminators in assault we will manage!)


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:18 am 
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I really like the heavy mechanised aspect of the EpicAu lists. However, I think I'm probably going to go with Minervan Legion for now. Although, I've made a commitment to myself not to start buying new minis until I've played at least one game of EA and confirmed I actually like it, and I'm not just operating on SM2 nostalgia. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:31 am 
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If you want to try heavy mech marines in 'normal' EA, check out the scoins of iron or skaros lists (should be somewhere in the marines section on here).

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 11:32 am 
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Apocolocyntosis wrote:
If you want to try heavy mech marines in 'normal' EA, check out the scoins of iron or skaros lists (should be somewhere in the marines section on here).


Interesting. Thanks for the tip, I will hunt them down.


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:22 pm 
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I think that they are unballanced. 30K lists are created to play +/- 4000 points, and a NetEA list of 4000 is going to be more powerfull.

Anyway I would want to see other people experiencies, I would like to play my Sons Of Horus against Orks, to represent the great crussade


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:27 pm 
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Interesting as my group play both and there had been thoughts about a possible cross over.

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:42 pm 
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I've only had a couple of games of Heresy AU list vs. standard Epic Ork list (World Eater vs. the classic 'Ghazkull' orks) and it seems to balance pretty well. Close game, nothing stood out as overly powerful or weak.
One thing I don't like about the Heresy AU lists is the massive blocks of marines you can end up with (once you add support squads, extra vehicles etc.) although I guess that's meant to be capturing the way the marines fought (and I guess ties in with the really old Horus Heresy epic game artwork when you had hundreds of little marines scurrying around!) - we house ruled it so you can have the heavy or support weapons as supporting squadrons.

So it seems fine, but I'm not a tournament player and I don't do net listing to try and fine tune effective combinations - the guys that do regular tournaments and ride the lists a bit harder might have a different story to tell!


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:29 am 
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I am planning on collecting a small 10,000 point Alpha Legion Heresy era army, and plan on using it for both epic armageddon, and heresy era epic armageddon.

Alpha Legion 30K army I want to build – 10000 points, 26 formations
Alpha Legion Line Detachments – 3250 pts, 8 formations
650 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, 4 Heavy Support Squads, Champion, 6 Rhinos, 2 Vindicator, 1 Whirlwind Hyperios
325 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, Champion, 4 Rhinos.
325 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, Champion, 4 Rhinos
350 points – Legion Terminator Detachment – Librarian, 4 Legion Terminators
425 points – Legion Assault Detachment – Chaplain, 8 Legion assault units, 8 legion dreadclaw drop pods
425 points – Legion Assault Detachment – Chaplain, 8 Legion assault units, 8 legion dreadclaw drop pods
350 points – Legion Tactical Detachment – Librarian, 8 Legion tactical units, 8 drop pods
400 points – Legion Breacher Detechment – Chaplain, 4 Breacher units, 2 Assault Ram
Alpha Legion Support Detachments – 3825 pts, 14 formations
400 points – Legion Artillery Battery – 4 Basilisks, Whirlwind Hyperios
400 points – legion landraider squadron – 5 legion landraider Phobos
300 Points – Legion Artillery Battery – 4 Whirlwinds
300 points – Legion Javelin Attack Squadron Chaplain, 5 Javelin attack speeder Units
300 points – Legion Contemptor Dreadnoughts – 5 Contemptor Dreadnoughts, 5 Dreadnought drop pods
200 points – Legion Space Craft – Strike Cruiser
200 points – Legion Land Speeder Squadron – 5 Legion land Speeder units
150 points – Legion Reconnaissance Squadron – 4 Legion Reconnaissance units, 2 Rhinos
150 points – Legion Reconnaissance Squadron – 4 Legion Reconnaissance units, 2 Rhinos
450 points – Legion Sicaran Squadron – 6 Legion Sicaran Tanks
375 points – Storm Eagle Attack Wing – 3 Storm Eagles
250 points – Thunderhawk Gunship – 1 Thunderhawk Gunship
250 points – Thunderhawk Gunship – 1 Thunderhawk Gunship
100 points – Thunderhawk Transporter – 1 thunderhawk transporter
Lords of War – 2150 pts, 6 formations
450 points – Legion Stormbird Heavy Attack Ship
300 points – Legion Falchion – 1 Falchion
300 points – Legion Gunship Wing – 2 Fire Raptor units
250 points – Legion interceptor Wing – 2 Xiphon Interceptors
400 points – Legion Super Heavy Tank Battery – 3 Cerberus Tank Destroyers
450 points – Alpharius and Omegon – Alpharius and Omegon, 7 Tactical bolt gun units, 4 Rhinos
Allies – Titan Legions – 775 pts, 1 formation
775 points – Reaver Titan – 2 Quake Cannons, Carapace Landing Pad, Carapace Multi-lasers


I have almost finished my 10,000 points Paramar/Elysian drop army, and have 8 other project armies I am slowly building, or have nearly finished quirte a few armies. I can use the Elysians, my orks, Eldar, Skitari , White Scars, Squats, and possibly even the Vraaksians in a heresy era game.

I am sure your Salamanders and Word Bearers would be suitable for a standard Epik armageddon 40k game. You just need to redo the list, and have enough minis for both systems.

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:42 am 
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Pago_JKS wrote:
I think that they are unballanced. 30K lists are created to play +/- 4000 points, and a NetEA list of 4000 is going to be more powerfull.

Anyway I would want to see other people experiencies, I would like to play my Sons Of Horus against Orks, to represent the great crussade



That is strange and seems opposite to what was supposed to be the case when xenos faced Astartes and imperial Guard/Solar Auxilia armies. Orks and Eldar and most other alien species were hard pressed to deal with the astartes legions (or a smaller force from them).

Xenos are supposed to be harder to kill off and deal with by 40K time period. The Imperium forces were spread thinly and were hard pressed on all fronts, and by stronger aliens enemies (Necrons, Tau and Tyranids). Technology had been stagnated and lots of STCs were lost. Development of new technology and regaining old technology has been very slow.

Thus I would have thought that the Heresy era armies would be harder to deal with.

Mind you I have yet to have a game of Epic Armageddon, as most of the epic gamers in my local and slightly expanded area do not play Heresy much.

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 2:42 pm 
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You have an interesting definition of 'small' Deb at 10,000 points! ;D :D

Agree with your points about how effective the Great Crusade forces should have been against Xenos armies (essentially they should just be smashing them out of the way). But, I guess this is a miniature wargame and it's all about balance of forces for a fair game. And I guess the guys making the heresy lists wanted to be cautious and not make them more powerful than the standard Epic AG lists.

For the few games I have played with Great Crusade-era forces we have used a narrative/campaign system rather than tournament/hardcore setting. So one is planetstrike force of Astartes trying to seize ork industrial zones. Another is Ork counter-attack against Imperial airport. So, you use asymmetrical forces for that (for the airport for example, a small Marine defence force has to hold out and protect transport aircraft and the airport itself from a numerically superior ork force attacking, until reinforcements arrive). You could never do that game in a tournament setting, but just playing with mates it's fine and a lot of fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sat Oct 24, 2020 8:43 am 
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Okay, so not generally designed for a tournament style version of the game. I suppose you could do the same thing with standard NetEA lists. I have noted that the Heresy era marine lists, and even the guard have more expensive formations. Some of them do have access to rarer technologies though.

And my collection of Epic Armageddon armies is quite moderate, even those I am planning on building are between 5000 and 10,000 points.

Here is a list of my current and planned projects

List of my Collect or planned Epic armies.

(In Progress) Emperors Children Army – 10,065 points planned army about 7,000 points currently need more drop pods, basic chaos troopers, and vehicles.
(in Progress) Skitarii Army – planned for 7,245 points but need more transports, ordinatus minorus fighter craft, and other odds and ends.
(in Progress) AMTL Army – 6,500 points but with fleshing out it will be 8,000 points +
(in progress) Red Corsairs – not quite a basic army as I need more warbands, and infantry, but including Daemon engines I have it will become a 8,100 points army
(Complete) Vraaksian Renegades Army – 11,350 points
(Complete) Necrons (Sautekh/Scarab Conflict) Army – 16,950 points
(in progress) Orks Feral Army – Nearly 3,800 now but need more wildboyz, squig catapults, Nobs, boyz to et it to my planned 5,290 points
(in Progress) Orks Ghazghull Thraka Warhorde – 2995 points now but I need more infantry, transports, and more aircraft to get it to planned 8,000 points
(in Progerss) Orks Gargant Arny – 9485 points
(in Progress) Orks Speed Freeks/Kult of Speed/ Evil Sunz Army – 3,410 points
(Complete) Eldar Iyanden Army – 5,450 points
(Complete) Eldar Sian-Hann Army – 6,500
(in Progress) Eldar Biel-Tan Army – plan for a 5,500 army half way there
(in Progress) Dark Eldar Army – currently 10,000 but to flesh it out I want to get it to 14,250 points
(in Progress) Iron Warriors Army – not enough for a basic tournament army but I plan on a 8,000 point army
(Planned) Heresy Era Alpha Legion Army – Plan for a 10,000 points
(in Progress) Daemons Army – plan to build 5,000 – 6,000 points
(in progress) White Scars Army – over 5000 points but want to build it to 10,095 points
(in Progress) Imperial Fists – plan to build 8,000
(in Progress) Squats Thurgrims Stronghold Army – a few more formations and I will have a 13,050 points
(Planned) Adeptus Custodes/Talons of the Emperor – Still have to get the 3D printer working to start on this army 7,735 points
(in Progress) Tau 3rd Phase expansion army – I want to eventually build it to 6,060 points


If you do it make sure you do it well. Not a bad collection since I only started my current collection 5 or 6 years ago. And yes only a fraction of it is painted.

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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2020 3:39 pm 
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Well.. I will say this for you Deb, you have definitely taken "go big or go home" to heart! :)

That will be super impressive if you manage to get through even 50% of that list.

I think I'm probably at about 6-7000 points of Pre-Heresy (Great Crusade) World Eaters, using the Epic Heresy AU army lists. I'm also converting this for use with the new Imperium Dominatus ruleset (I assume the points will be just about similar).

Probably about 4000pts of Orks, will jump up a bit though when the gargants I've just got get painted!

My next projects lined up are probably a Squat force, as again an abhuman race encountered by the World Eaters during the Great Crusade.


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 Post subject: Re: Heresy Lists vs NetEA Lists?
PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:32 am 
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I have worked out my Alpha legion army I want to build based on the current Heresy Era Rule Set.

Alpha Legion 30K army I want to build – 10000 points, 26 formations

Alpha Legion Line Detachments – 3250 pts, 8 formations
650 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, 4 Heavy Support Squads, Champion, 6 Rhinos, 2 Vindicator, 1 Whirlwind Hyperios
325 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, Champion, 4 Rhinos.
325 points – Tactical Detachment – 8 Tactical Squads, Champion, 4 Rhinos
350 points – Legion Terminator Detachment – Librarian, 4 Legion Terminators
425 points – Legion Assault Detachment – Chaplain, 8 Legion assault units, 8 legion dreadclaw drop pods
425 points – Legion Assault Detachment – Chaplain, 8 Legion assault units, 8 legion dreadclaw drop pods
350 points – Legion Tactical Detachment – Librarian, 8 Legion tactical units, 8 drop pods
400 points – Legion Breacher Detechment – Chaplain, 4 Breacher units, 2 Assault Ram

Alpha Legion Support Detachments – 3825 pts, 14 formations
400 points – Legion Artillery Battery – 4 Basilisks, Whirlwind Hyperios
400 points – legion landraider squadron – 5 legion landraider Phobos
300 Points – Legion Artillery Battery – 4 Whirlwinds
300 points – Legion Javelin Attack Squadron Chaplain, 5 Javelin attack speeder Units
300 points – Legion Contemptor Dreadnoughts – 5 Contemptor Dreadnoughts, 5 Dreadnought drop pods
200 points – Legion Space Craft – Strike Cruiser
200 points – Legion Land Speeder Squadron – 5 Legion land Speeder units
150 points – Legion Reconnaissance Squadron – 4 Legion Reconnaissance units, 2 Rhinos
150 points – Legion Reconnaissance Squadron – 4 Legion Reconnaissance units, 2 Rhinos
450 points – Legion Sicaran Squadron – 6 Legion Sicaran Tanks
375 points – Storm Eagle Attack Wing – 3 Storm Eagles
250 points – Thunderhawk Gunship – 1 Thunderhawk Gunship
250 points – Thunderhawk Gunship – 1 Thunderhawk Gunship
100 points – Thunderhawk Transporter – 1 thunderhawk transporter

Lords of War – 2150 pts, 6 formations
450 points – Legion Stormbird Heavy Attack Ship
300 points – Legion Falchion – 1 Falchion
300 points – Legion Gunship Wing – 2 Fire Raptor units
250 points – Legion interceptor Wing – 2 Xiphon Interceptors
400 points – Legion Super Heavy Tank Battery – 3 Cerberus Tank Destroyers
450 points – Alpharius and Omegon – Alpharius and Omegon, 7 Tactical bolt gun units, 4 Rhinos

Allies – Titan Legions – 775 pts, 1 formation
775 points – Reaver Titan – 2 Quake Cannons, Carapace Landing Pad, Carapace Multi-lasers

I will soon have a 3D printer, and still have access to some forumware companies like Vanguard, Trolls, Onslaught, etc. Maybe a few conversions for some, butit will be a good looking army when I am finished.

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