but they never said they were bringing back epic. the disappointment is more around the community wish listing than any reality. Also any sentiments about how this is just to screw us over are patently silly. We're not even on the radar.

Also, we're year(s) away so whatever is or is not actually made is premature to worry about.

I've been vocal that I'd suspect they'd upscale to 10mm and be titan v titan (which actually would be just a true scale titan in 6mm) OR they'd downscale to a very abstracted 3 or 4mm game with crap-tons of stuff (where SHTs are the size of rhinos and infantry is a mass on an integrated base) that would play more like a board game. More a system like BaC than something like a traditional wargame.

edit:

EXACTLY!

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Hey we really don't need 2 threads discussing the same thing do we? [guilty as charged] Can we get this thread merged with this one?
http://taccmd.tacticalwargames.net/view ... 43&t=30517

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This 'HH weekender epic news' thread has now been merged with the other 'HH weekender epic news' titled thread.

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I find myself wondering if by changing the scale they are referring to the overall scale of the game rather than the scale of the models.
When Epic started with Adeptus Titanicus the game was very small in scale, just a few titans on a side.
With the advent of Space Marine the scale of the game changed from what was essentially a skirmish game between a few giant robots to the mass infantry and mixed armor game we all know and love.
I'm wondering if the new game, which they've stated will essentially an AT rehash, isn't going to again focus on a handful of large armored combatants with no real infantry to speak of which would again reduce the scale of the game considerably.

It doesn't mean much to me. I don't think GW is going to weather the storm in it's current configuration.

My buddy tried to argue this at the superbowl. "But Age of Sigmar is a fun beer and pretzals game!" You know what, you're absolutely right. It IS a fun beer and pretzals game. The problem is that it's not priced like a B&P game, which means no budge for the beer or the pretzals. That's a big problem: it's not an accessible game. Sure, you can play with just a few boxes of units. But there's no mechanism for making the game balanced, at all. And "don't play against dickheads" isn't a valid answer. If I remove the competitive people from my local meta, I'm left with like, two people to play against. My favorite people to play are competitive people. I am a competitive person.

AoS also has problems when you are an ardent fan of the fluff: I've got a hardcover copy of the Liber Chaotica. I was gonna buy it, but my mate stopped me, and wouldn't let me buy it. Convinced me to buy a devil fish and crisis suit squad. Because it was my christmas present that year. But that's how much I love to read the fluff, that's how much I love the background of this game: i was gonna drop a Benjamin plus for a book that had NO gameplay value. But then, you go and rip up all that fluff, reset the game, and change the way a setting that I have loved since I was in grade school, and you want me to buy into a new fluff, that... well, doesn't have the connection I felt?

I don't see AoS doing very well a year or two down the road, unless there's a major shake up in the way the game is played.

Games workshop has consistently misunderstood the market it's in, and I think it's going to hurt them as they move forward. Horus Heresy is going to keep them alive for a while, because Space Marines sell. But even then, it's going to peter out, and more and more non space marine players are going to drop out as they see a lack of support and competitive options, for another space marine centric release, following more space marine centric releases.

They're not making money, and that bodes ill for the franchises.

i dont care about the scale or the models, its a new ruleset that everyone could get behind thats of interest

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I doubt many of us here would though?

I might give a new version of AT a try but I doubt new GW epic rules would be any good and I'd 99% likely stick with Epic Armageddon.

I find it particularly interesting that all the licensed Warhammer Fantasy properties are of course, still set in the Old World. After years of fans quietly awaiting it, we are getting a Total War: Warhammer game. Blood Bowl, Mordheim and Vermintide are all rattling along on Steam. Man o' War is in development, for crying out loud!

Fantasy Flight just released a Warhammer Quest card game which is quite good, and the tablet games include, well, Warhammer Quest!

They absolutely are intent on keeping the Old World as a setting, and I wonder if they might do some Warmaster mass combat game in plastic at some point. Wishful thinking from me, I guess, but who knows what GW are thinking at any time.

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I wouldn't read too much into licensed properties that predate the End Times publications to be evidence that the Old World is still alive. It takes a bit of time to develop a game, and a change in the licensed property half-way through development isn't likely to be evidenced in the game's finished state.

Blood Bowl has been a "separate" reality for some time, a spoof of the GrimDark core reality of Warhammer. I don't read too much into it's existence.

Of course, I'm still trying to figure out what GW... sorry, WARHAMMER, is trying to do. Their board of directors seriously seems to think they manufacture "collectibles", that people just happen to play games with, but mostly people just collect them and set them on the shelf? And since they are "collectibles", they can be priced competitively with other high-end/middle grade model kits. Despite their kits not having the sort of detail that the comparatively priced modeling kits have.

They have a retail chain that can't make money, driving the studio's development of more new models to get people to buy more.

I don't think GW knows what it's doing, either.

Of course GW sells collectibles, that's exactly the right attitude for them to have. I have far more models than I can ever game with at one time - far more than I will ever game with ever in fact. It doesn't mean the quality of the game is irrelevant though, they really should do better with that but the models will always come first.

Personally I think GW knows their market very well, it just isnt you or I particularly. And that's why folk like us always think they are going down the pan. People have been complaining about prices for as long as I can remember, its not a sudden gross mistake on their part.

The only real difference now is that for the first time there is a little bit of competition in the same quality range, but they are still the only company in the industry with a significant retail presence to garner more victims, err, customers. GW has always needed to replace the natural attrition of old fogeys with new teenage players, and they still do. Once a group of teens are all playing GW games, there's a lot of inertia to get over before they all give up and play something else. However people don't go to the high street as much these days, and if I were GW I'd be starting to do a rethink because of that.

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Within the UK. Outside the UK, GW stores are vastly outnumbered by independents, to the extent that a lot of gamers have never seen or been inside a GW store.

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I was under the impression GW was a lot more successful in the UK as a result (relative to population of course)

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