Warhammer 40,000 is complicated.
Epic is complex.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I was attracted to epic solely because of the 6mm scale - knowing nothing of the rules at the time. 15mm epic would not interest me at all.

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AFK with real life, still checking PMs

- - - in the same way that chess is complex  


This too! It is not just that your formations run away when the enemy upset them, they may not do as you want in the first place. (Mine seem to take serious offence at some of the extreme things asked of them )

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Except Epic isn't boring as hell.

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"Good ale, the true and proper drink of Englishmen. He is not deserving of the name of Englishman who speaketh against ale, that is good ale."
- George Borrow

I was iniatally attracted becuase I thought a 6mm EPIC army would take up less space while at uni.



It is a good game though

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My shifting projects

Epic == Simple rules, complex game experience.

Warhammer 40,000 == Complicated rules (and how!), simple game experience.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

^ Oh, definitely. I quite agree (with the above and your post at the top of the page). I just like being rude about chess is all.

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"Good ale, the true and proper drink of Englishmen. He is not deserving of the name of Englishman who speaketh against ale, that is good ale."
- George Borrow

I'm crap at chess.  


Maybe my game pieces would do better if I painted them?

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or if you gave your king a multi melta ?

Entering the thread a bit late, being a crap chess player and all, I re-ventured into Epic because I happened to buy the Epic A rulebook in the local :gasp: GW store. Yes, that was a long time ago. I had given it up long time ago, with the advent of Epic 40000, but immediately liked the rules. Growing tired of the constant revamps of the core systems, the extremely slow codex/army book cycle (which I cannot believe most GW gamers deal with), the dumbing down of the rules and gameplay, the thought of launching Epic A locally steadily grew. Then I ventured into the garage for old models, got an eBay account and made some serious orders (both GW and FW). I provide players with four different armies, and people who usually play 28mm constantly remark about the details of 6mm.

At first, I had the love of the 40K universe and the love of the EA rules, and I thought painting would go fast (since, I too, wrongly thought 6mm infantry would be differently coloured game pieces at the utmost). I do not know what went wrong, but I wanted my 6mm to look and feel like the 28mm stuff. I honestly also think you can come pretty close.

The moral of the story: It is not a simple rules vs models preference that make people choose their games. If I did not care for the 40K universe, I would be far more likely to collect GHQ or something else. It is the exact combination of 6mm armies and the 40K background and the gameplay that makes me want every army available (and some). Having played SM & TL helped, of course. I guess the saddest part is that the triggering event was me picking up the rules in the GW store. Marketing, or just a single store shelf, goes a long way. Seeing Epic armies up front also seems to change some players' instinctive disregard for 6mm.

/Fredmans

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Dude. YES. (Good point, though; with all the discussion of Epic's complexity and what that means to gameplay, the simple point that Epic is a LOT of fun may have been lost.)

Epic is great fun.  

Whoops my mistake, I did mean 6th.  Got my 40k and Fantasy editions mixed up there.

Simple? Really? The many threads I often see about some rules leads me to think otherwise.

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http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176

This is true, but compared to 40k that statement still holds.

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For those who like chess (and even those who don't) I can strongly recommend SHOGI (Japanese chess) which is slightly more complicated and a whole lot more complex and colourful.

Back on topic, the EPIC rules are generally simple but sometimes unclear. A few more diagrams and expicit explanations of things like the turn process would clear up a lot of the confusion and questions raised in the forums. However, the rules do give a lot of lattitude in unit design, which with the judicious application of a few 'special rules' has resulted in a wide variety of armies, each with their own flavour. IMHO it is this variety and 'colour' that is the most attractive thing about EPIC.

I would also agree about the extraordinary detail that can be found on the infantry let alone the vehicles, which means they are challenging, but can be modeled to a high standard. 6mm is definitely growing in popularity as a gaming scale, in the same way that 15mm took over from 25mm several decades ago. It does require people to see actual games / dioramas rather than individual figures to appreciate the look and feel (which is a very clever marketing gimic that has been employed by GW since its inception), and exhibitions / tournaments also help.

Marketing would help, but not perhaps as much as people think IMHO. There are literally hundereds of rules for all periods out there, together with figures of all scales. The vast majority do not attract a huge following - 40K being the exception rather than the rule. (As an aside / example, I wonder how the revenue from LoTR compares with that from 40K or Warhammer; I bet it is a poor comparison.)

I have a suspicion that people are wargamers first, interested in a particular period second, and only then do they 'split' into modelers or gamers (and that distinction often seems blurred). EPIC would seem to tap into the group of fantasy gamers, often who have migrated from other GW offerings, while also appealing to a wider audience of 'strategic' gamers. It is this appeal that seems to keep the system going (and the fact that the hardened veterans have invested a lot of time and money).

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"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt