Hey folks

Title says it all really.

How big do you guys think hills should be for epic scale? I'm trying to make a terrain box to tour my terrain around, and I've decided on a bunch of hills, but I'm unsure as to how big they should be?

I'm thinking about 12-15mm of height per 'level' (so about 15mil for a short one and 25 for a double level one), but how wide should they be?  I'm thinking minimum of about 100 mm by 200 mm, and my biggest proposed one is about 280 by 150.

Are these too small? I have seen bigger ones but are these reasonable? I'm a bit cramped for size but I dont want to make useless terrain, I'd rather make fewer big ones I guess.

Cheers all!

-Moronguhl

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Great Scott!

I've tried out various methods and to be honest I was never quite satisfied with the results. The ones I currently use are very tall and made from 40mm foamboard on a 3mm mdf base. I went for a flat hill with curves sides and made some large enough to stack another hill on top of it for very tall pieces. If I were to remake them today I'd probably go for several layers like you propose (actually I did make one recent hill with a piece for my river system that uses this approach and it looks much better IMO.). Size wise I think hills should have a fair size. Smaller than 30x20 cm and they begin to look a litle weird to me. But if you're making something with mountain or rock sides, small pieces would work just fine. My largest hill is something like 50x40ish and large enough to fit smaller hills or other terrain types on top. Personally I think this looks more interesting and gives the battlefield a better sense of various levels rather than just a flat plane with some lumps on.

Then again I don't really play much anymore, so the terrain I make is focussed on the visual aspect rather than what is practical gaming wise, so I'm sure some people would disagree with me

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Sofa General

Nobody expects the Inquisition!!!
http://theepiclounge.wordpress.com/

I too have not played for years but I'm concentrating on painting all my stuff before it's too late ...  ANY way, any size hills are good as long a they are mostly sloped.  A few cliffs and terraced hills are O.K. But after years of reading maps in my past career ... sloped hills certainly looks more correct to me ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

This is the terrain size recommedation from the rulebook:

DESIGN CONCEPT
Tournament Terrain

We recommend the use of terrain features when playing tournament games in preference to modular terrain (see the
Appendices for a more detailed description of the two types of terrain).

• Terrain features can be of pretty much any type, but should be roughly 15-30cm across. Hills can be up to twice this size. See below for a note of how to deal with rivers and roads.

• Divide the table into 60cm (2 foot) square areas. The total number of terrain features placed should be equal to twice the number of 60cm square areas. For example, if you were playing on a 120cm by 180 cm, you would have six areas and should place 12 terrain features.

• Within the limits above, place between 0-4 features in each 60cm square.

• The terrain may include one river. Rivers count as a terrain feature for each area that they run through. They need to enter on one table edge and leave from another, and should not be greater in length than the shortest table edge. For example, on a 120cm by 180cm table, the river should not be more than 120cm long. There should be a bridge or ford every 30cm along the river.

• Roads may be added after all terrain features have been placed. Any number of roads may be used. They need to enter on one table edge and either exit from another or end at a terrain feature.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Depends how you play them. I take it they block line of sight unless you pop up, so hill size doesn't matter. If you play with the 40k laser pointer you may have different ideas.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Thanks for all your comments guys.

I agree with TRC about hills blocking line of sight, I've used that recently in games and it makes sense.  I think I'm gonna end up making two or three at about 250mm by 150mm and then some smaller ones to fit in.  My plan is to have three or four 'layers' of terrain in this box (hills on the bottom, area terrain [rubble, craters] on the second layer and then ruins on the top level), and I reckon at least one if not one and a half layers will be hills.  If I'm cunning they'll all tessellate together and there won't be any wasted space, but we shall see.

Hills should probably be the largest single piece of terrain on the board, but I'm not sure I can manage to proposed rulebook size of 300 by 600!  Maybe rip off the GW 28mm scale hills and have one which can be split to either create one massive hill or two smaller ones?  That could work and would be a cunning way of having a big hill if required.

Reckon this'll work? Anyone tried portable terrain in this way?

-Moronguhl

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Great Scott!

I use hills of various sizes and heights. I'm guessing the tallest ones are at least 4" tall.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Crikey! That'd be big for 40k in my book!  

What rules do you use for hills? Do you follow the 'any hill blocks LOS' rules or do use more true LOS? I'm guessing not even an Emperor could see over 4" hills, but could definitely see over say 2" for example, wheras a 6mm infantryman could obviously not.

-Moronguhl

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Great Scott!

I use true LoS.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

Yep True LoS ... When in doubt give a cover bonus ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

For hills I've been very happy with the GW plastic hills (both styles), they're a decent size for epic, effectively block LOS even if you're using laser pointers (which I don't, we tend to play that the feature blocks LOS, it's easier and faster that way). Best of all they're quick to make/paint (my time is worth more to me than the £10 or so that they cost) and are plenty rugged enough to transport while being very light.

Mmm, have to admit hill making is going to be the messiest and probably hardest part.  I'll have a look at the GW ones (about £15 each IIRC?) but I reckon they'll be too big for my transport box.  Added bonus though, I'm guessing their hollow inside?  Additional storage ahoy!

-Moronguhl

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Great Scott!

They are indeed hollow.

And because I'm bored... The single piece hill is 41x29x6 cm. It's £13.50 from Maelstrom and I'd expect it'd be possible to find it a tad cheaper elsewhere.

Irritatingly it's a few mm too large to fit into the figure case I'm planning to make into my epic-terrain case. That said, most places I'd game will have generic things like hills so it's the buildings, ruins, roads, defence-line and woods that really need to fit. I feel a terrain blog of my own coming on!

Gah, that's about 3cm too big for my box! Guess I'll stick to the scratch building then.  I'm definetly gonna rip off the two parted GW hill, cheers for mentioning it Levinas! If you're not inspiring my Valkyrie colour scheme it's my hill construction!

Definitely go for the blog. I'm going to try to finish my Dark Angels first but I'm sure those ruined building sprues will be calling to me before they're done.

-Moronguhl

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Great Scott!

I carry enough terrain for a 6x4 battlefield in an old epic40k box, baring the 3-4 GW hills that go separately. I don't like them, because they are too steep for epic models that then slide off. But they are easier to stack and throw in a bag (though the grass is starting to come off).

Note I wouldn't buy them at that price, but since I was given them why not.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x