but quite hard to move troops about in when you have big hands...
Besides, the imperium seems (coincidently
) to build things on a much bigger scale. Warhounds can wander about the main streets of a hive
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| Why city terrain never looks realistic to me http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=14754 |
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| Author: | semajnollissor [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
http://www.boston.com/bigpict...._n.html I especially like pictures 2, 7, 8, 12, 15, 20, 23 I imagine an imperial city would look like that (times eleven). |
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| Author: | Dwarf Supreme [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 7:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Stunning photographs. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:21 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
but quite hard to move troops about in when you have big hands... Besides, the imperium seems (coincidently ) to build things on a much bigger scale. Warhounds can wander about the main streets of a hive
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| Author: | pixelgeek [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
London and similar cities are examples of large and very dense urban areas. Check out old Eastern Front photos. Even Stalingrad has spaces between buildings that make the average Epic game table look quite realistic :-) I love packing a lot of buildings and rubble when I play urban games but as mentioned, big hands and dense terrain are a recipe for disaster. |
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| Author: | semajnollissor [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:43 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
I wasn't necessarily talking about the density of the city terrain. Rather, I was referring to the organic arangement of the street network. Sure, there is somewhat of a grid, but the major roads go in odd directions. Also, there is no way to position a real city map on a tabletop and have all (or even most) of the roads running parallel or perpendicular to the table edges. Maybe some of the new world cities, but I imagine Imperial cities being modeled on European ones. As for the building density, if you just have ruins it can be made playable. Just assume the level of rubble is one or two stories less than the level of the highest intact walls. Board level would be rubble level, everything above would be ruins. In the end, though, this was just an excuse to post really cool pictures that I found online. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 8:58 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
it depends on the age of the city. Imperial ones were constucted after the advent of mass transport, so the chances are they'd follow a regualr pattern. Possible bases would be dartboard, grid, interlocking districts (Variant of grid normally), Tartan (again, a type of grid). Of course, topography of the orgional land would distort the pattern, but not to the extent of ancient cow track london... |
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| Author: | semajnollissor [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 9:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Well, I figure most major Imperial centers would have this type of history: 1) minor settlement during dark age of technology 2) emerging population center during age of strife 3) focus of activity during great crusade 4) major imperial building projects during age of imperium 5) undesirables move in 6) fight! 7) virus bombed by the usual suspects  repeat steps 4 - 7 ad nauseumIn the end, imperial cities ought to compete with wet spaghetti for level of organization. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
surely the periodic major building projects would reinstate some sort of order - like paris? Big bits of order with higglypiggly edges? goes off to look at google earth... |
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| Author: | semajnollissor [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Heh, like just having grid patterns in the impact craters. |
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| Author: | Carrington [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 10:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Quote: (semajnollissor @ 02 Feb. 2009, 21:27 ) Heh, like just having grid patterns in the impact craters. Nothing like a major fire (or strategic bombing) to allow for urban redesign -- Chicago's a good example of the former. |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Quote: (madd0ct0r @ 02 Feb. 2009, 21:16 ) surely the periodic major building projects would reinstate some sort of order - like paris? Big bits of order with higglypiggly edges? goes off to look at google earth... London has had two big opertunities to redesign, after the great fire in 1666 and after the second world war. On both occasions, arguments over the ownership of land stopped the redesign, so the majority of london is still laid out on medieval or even earlier designs. London is pretty much unique as a major city in the world that the closer you get to the centre, the smaller and windier the streets become. Check out the designs put forward by Sir Christopher Wren for the redevelopment of London after the great fire. Had they been acted upon London would be a jewel of the world. |
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| Author: | madd0ct0r [ Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
OK: i chose (fairly) randomly this section of Paris.  From it I pulled several 6foot by 6foot boards at 1:300 scale. It's probably best to treat areas with trees as open areas (as they are to anyone not 200ft up) Corner to Corner. Dirty Alley fighting then a sprint through the gardens.  Rock Around the Block: A main street dominated by a single titan while the survivors desperately try to evade it's guns up side streets.  Defend the palace. Speaks for itself really. bit of a sceanrio map, but I bet nobody could resist putting an objective inside the gates...  Killing Grounds: You'll need to cross it to win. If you do you'll loose... 
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| Author: | Markconz [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 9:47 am ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Quote: (semajnollissor @ 03 Feb. 2009, 07:43 ) I wasn't necessarily talking about the density of the city terrain. Rather, I was referring to the organic arangement of the street network. Sure, there is somewhat of a grid, but the major roads go in odd directions. Also, there is no way to position a real city map on a tabletop and have all (or even most) of the roads running parallel or perpendicular to the table edges. Maybe some of the new world cities, but I imagine Imperial cities being modeled on European ones. As for the building density, if you just have ruins it can be made playable. Just assume the level of rubble is one or two stories less than the level of the highest intact walls. Board level would be rubble level, everything above would be ruins. In the end, though, this was just an excuse to post really cool pictures that I found online. Well, interestingly my real life home city was designed in the 1900's as a 'perfect English city transplanted to the colonies', so is that anything like the Imperium setting up an offworld colony??     Part of the design to make it perfect though, was the sensible geometric grid layout. See 'Christchurch New Zealand' on Google Earth and you'll see that much of it is just a big grid (with a very large park in the middle and some rivers), just like wargames tables. Things start to get wonkier the further you go from the centre mind you... new developers seem to have forgotten the original plan...  Thus my view of what Imperial Cities should be like when I make tables, is 'replicated standard construct templates'. All in grids.  Of course the Imperium is a big place so I'm sure there is room enough for all types of cities. Cool pictures you posted though, and maddoctor!! ÂÂ
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| Author: | Legion 4 [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
And fighting a wargame on an Epic scale model of say Boston or Paris, etc. ... would be a nightmare ...   Closed Urban Warfare/MOUT ... Stalingrad, Manila, Jerusalem, etc. ...     |
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| Author: | zombocom [ Tue Feb 03, 2009 5:30 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Why city terrain never looks realistic to me |
Quote: (Markconz @ 03 Feb. 2009, 08:47 ) Thus my view of what Imperial Cities should be like when I make tables, is 'replicated standard construct templates'. All in grids. Grids are efficient, and we all know the imperium is anything but efficient. Besides, evolved street patterns have so much more charm. |
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