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Regimental Organization (help needed)

Xavi

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:48 am

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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Hello all!

I am working in the background for my IG army. Actually it is not imperial guard, but Oniss federation armed forces (a rogue subsector) but hey. The thing is that I have been looking at different regimental organizatrions from around the world and designed my own one. I would like the people "in the know" to give it a check if possible. The final result is that of a rapid intervention force, based on going there, destroying whatever neds to be killed and racing out before the enemy can return in strength. It is an armoured regiment, but with some infantry support to do this role. Thanks in advance :cool:

The general contents are as follow:
- 4 tank squadrons
- 2 mechanized infantry companies
- 1 recon squadron
- 1 engineer company
- 2 Artillery support sections (one of pure artillery, and the other of StuG-type assault cannons)

XVIIth Oniss Federation Mixed Armoured Regiment

HQ (Colonel)
- S-1 Personal (Captain)
- S-2 Information (Commander)
- S-3 Operations: (Lt. Colonel; leader of the HQ section)
- S-4 Logistics (Commander)

HQ Squadron
- (command ATT 000) (AWT stands for armoured tracked transport)
- Transmsions section (ATT 001 002 003)
- Radar Location Section
- Maintenace and Recovery Section (AWT 004)
- Transport Section
- AA section (HQ + 4 AA)
- Sanitation Section (Ambulance ATT 005)

The regiment is divided into 2 combat groups, the armoured group and the mechanized group with 3 squadrons/companies each. There are 2 further squadrons/companies (recon & combat engineers) and 2 further sections (artillery, both direct and indirect) attached to the regiment, and that are assigned to each one of the groups as needed.

ARMOURED GROUP
- HQ (Lt. Colonel) & HQ staff
- Command section
- Group's HQ 010
- Transmisions unit 011
- recovery unit 012
- Sanitation unit
- AA unit: HQ + 4 Hydras

- 1st Armoured Squadron (16 tanks)
- Command Tank 100
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 110 111 112 113 114
- Section 2: 5 Tanks 120 121 122 123 124
- Section 3: 5 Tanks 130 131 132 133 134

- 2nd Armoured Squadron (16 tanks)
- Command Tank 200
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 210 211 212 213 214
- Section 2: 5 Tanks 220 221 222 223 224
- Section 3: 5 Tanks 230 231 232 233 234

- 3rd Armoured Squadron (16 tanks)
- Command Tank 300
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 310 311 312 313 314
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 320 321 322 323 324
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 330 331 332 333 334

TOTAL: 48 tanks, 4 AA

MECHANIZED GROUP
- Command (Lt. Colonel) and staff
- Command section of the group
- HQ (Lt. Colonel) 020
- Transmisions unit 021
- Recovery unit 022
- Sanitation Unit
- AA Section: 4 Hydras

- 4th Armoured Squadron (16 Tanks)
- Command Tank 400
- Section 1: 5 Tanks 410 411 412 413 414
- Section 2: 5 Tanks 420 421 422 423 424
- Section 3: 5 Tanks 430 431 432 433 434

-5th Mechanized Company/Squadron (6 sections)
- Company HQ. 1 transport vehicle 500
- Section 1: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 2: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 3: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 4: Artillery: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized heavy mortars. 5 transports
- Section 5: AT section. 7 wheeled Medium Armoured vehicles. Divided in:
- Command vehicle
- Peloton 1 (dunno how to translate this): 2 vehicles with TOW 2L systems (or their 40k equivalent system)
- Peloton 2: 2 vehicles with TOW 2L system
- Peloton 3: 2 vehicles with MILAN system (medium range, TOW is long range. Both are missile-based AT systems)

-6th Mechanized Company/Squadron (6 sections)
- Company HQ. 1 transport vehicle 600
- Section 1: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 2: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 3: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized platoons. 5 transports.
- Section 4: Artillery: Mech. HQ + 4 mechanized heavy mortars. 5 transports
- Section 5: AT section. 7 wheeled Medium Armoured vehicles. Divided in:
- Command vehicle
- Peloton 1: 2 vehicles with TOW 2L systems (or their 40k equivalent system)
- Peloton 2: 2 vehicles with TOW 2L system
- Peloton 3: 2 vehicles with MILAN system (medium range, TOW is long range. Both are missile-based AT systems)

basically 2 mechanized infantry companies. Around 270 dudes overall.

SUPPOORT SQUADRONS
Under the direct command of the regiment colonel. Assigned to missions as needed.

- 7th Recon Squadron
- Command vehicle 700 (VEC)
- Section 1: 5 VEC* + 2 sentinels 710 711 712 713 714 715 716
- Section 2: 5 VEC* + 2 sentinels 720 721 722 723 724 725 726
- Section 3: 5 VEC* + 2 sentinels 730 731 732 733 734 735 736
- Section 4: 1 VEC*(HQ)+ 9 sentinels 740 741 742 743 744 745 746 747 748 749
- Section 5: Mech inf recon unit 750 751 752 753 754

The vehicles in each section are organized in pairs or trios for recon missions, except for the ones finishing with a zero, that are command vehicles.

*= VEC stands for "Vehicle of Cavalry Exploration/Recon" in Spanish (Vehiculo de Exploracionde Caballeria). Dunno how to translate them. Usually they are light tanks on wheels or tracks, depending on how much money they have invested on them :lol: appart from that they are your average recon units.

- 8th Assault engineers Company (4 sections)
- Company HQ. 1 transport vehicle 700
- Section 1: Mechanized HQ + 4 assault engineers assault platoons. 5 transports
- Section 2: Mechanized HQ + 4 assault engineers assault platoons. 5 transports
- Section 3: Mechanized HQ + 4 assault engineers assault platoons. 5 transports
- Section 4: Assault Vehicles: Mech. HQ + 4 Hellhound Assault Flammer Tanks

OTHER SUPPORT ELEMENTS
- Autopropulsed (is that a wor? it means that it moved by itself) Artillery Section: 5 basilisks with indirect fire
- Assault Cannons section: 5 basilisks (StuG III style)

It is quite long, I know (I spend a lot of time typing that down!!) but I would appreciate comments on it if you could. Thank you

Oh, so far I have been criticized that it has quite some artillery, since there are 10 artillery pieces assigned to the HQ and 8 further pieces assigned to the 2 infantry formations. Dunno if this is normal or is a particularity of the Spanish armoured battlegroups (couldn't find company links for the US and UK military) or if it is quite common for mechanized units to have their own 120mm mortar (or equivalent) section assigned to the company.

Regards,

Xavi

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Legion 4

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:30 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36987
Location: Ohio - USA

O.K., overall not bad! ?

Armored Regiments (Rgts) are not normally rapid strike forces but infantry supported by some tanks, artillery, aircraft, etc. However, it could work, so I wouldn't change it.

The two Combat Groups would actually be Battalions (Bns). The term Commander is a Naval rank, in this case, the Army/Marine equivalent is Major.

The S-2 is normally referred as the Intelligence Officer. Transmission section is usually called a Signals or Commo (Communication) Section.

Two AT (TOW or MILAN for example) vehicles would be called a Section or AT Team, if you're using Section to mean a Platoon (the Spanish Army may do it that way?). Two guns of any type would be a Team, in that case.

The only indirect fire assets that would be at Company level may be mortars. The US Army had removed those and you'll only find a Heavy Mortar Platoon (107mm US, [120mm NATO], etc.) at Battalion (Bn) level.

All the Field Artillery (FA) would be part of an FA Battalion assigned in support of the Rgt. All their fire would be coordinated thru the Bn Ops Sec(s) (S-3) attached Fire Support Coordination Team. No FA would be part of any Infantry or Tank Company. An FA Battalion would consist of 3-4 Batteries of 6-8 "Tubes" (or guns) each.

VEC... we would call them Armored Cav (Cavalry), or Armored Recon or just, Recon, Cav or Scouts.

And any Tracked Field Gun (Basilisk) is called Self-Propelled or SP. Otherwise if you got to hook it up to a vehicle to move it, it's called "Towed."

A StuG type unit would be called an Assault Gun Battery.

When you use the Term "Section" it appears you mean Platoon (40-50 men or 3-5 AFVs generally equals a Platoon). An Infantry Platoon consists of 3-4 Squads of 11(Army)-13(USMC) men and a HQ section of 4-6 men. Each Squad consists of 2 Fire Teams of 5 men each and 1 Squad Leader (Staff Sgt/E-6 (US Army).

Sanitation Units... don't have them in the US Army... everyone cleans up after themselves... if you know what I mean! :laugh:

Let me know if this helps or if I confused you! :;):

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Xavi

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:18 am

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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Ok, great!

Thx L4. Looks like there is a rasther different denominations system in the different armies here

Yup, when I say section I mean platoon, and now that I look at it, when I say infantry platoon I mean squad :lol:

I didn't know how to translate the "sanitation" thingy: they are the doctors and medics, the people that take care of the wounded, not the people that clean up! :lol:

About the field artillery, there would be a full Bn of them? I thought it would be less of them at most, not more of them

In any case the background for those is that they belong to a human system in the 40k universe that needs to deal with enemies that land over their own worlds in a hit and run campaign (basically orks) more than with direct protracted combat. They use relatively lightweight tanks when compared to your average imperial giard regiment, but that are much fater an d manoeuverable. Theiir mission is "search and destroy" basically. There are few dudes in the worlds of this organization, so they use tanks to compensate for it. LOTS of tanks

It is basically an elite kind of formation inside the much larger general army, that tries to only enter combat when victory is ensured because you have destroyed enemy supply depots, communications and HQ centres. At least this was the idea I had when designing the list. I plan on using 1:35 leopard models for the tanks actually.

I will reword those and see how it looks

Thx for the tips man

Xavi

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vanvlak

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 11:36 am

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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
Posts: 10348
Location: Malta

Hi Xavi and welcome back. The sanitation corps could take on a new meaning in the 40K universe - Ordo Xenos kill teams for cleansing aliens (as you're into Orky enemies). Alternatively, they could also be daemon hunters or witch hunters. In the 40K Univ the medics are either trained corpsemen in the IG or the more specialised Apothecaries for Space Marines. The 'organised' medical apparatus of the Imperium appears to be connected to the non-militant orders of the Adeptus Sororitas. The Adeptus Mechanicus have their own definition of medic, of course...

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Xavi

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 2:54 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Ok, if I grasped it right it should be something like this:

NOTE: in bold you can see the organization isues that I am less sure about. Some names can keep being wrong in any case.

Regimental HQ et al

ARMOURED BATALLION

HQ et al. (Major)

- 1st armoured Squadron: 16 tanks
HQ tank
3 tank platoons of 5 tanks each

- 2nd armoured Squadron: 16 tanks
HQ tank
3 tank platoons of 5 tanks each

3rd armoured Squadron: 16 tanks
HQ tank
3 tank platoons of 5 tanks each

MECHANIZED BATALLION

HQ et al. (Major)
- FA battery, with HQ (observation) + 6 heavy mortar teams.

- 4th armoured Squadron: 16 tanks
HQ tank
3 tank platoons of 5 tanks each

- 5th Mechanized Inf Company
HQ
3 mech. infantry platoons with HQ + 4 mechanized squads
1 AT platoon, with 7 light AT vehicles: HQ + 3 treams of 2 vehicles each.

- 6th Mechanized Inf Company
HQ
3 mech. infantry platoons with HQ + 4 mechanized squads
1 AT platoon, with 7 light AT vehicles: HQ + 3 treams of 2 vehicles each.

SUPPORT UNITS (Commanded by regiment HQ and assigned as needed)

7th Recon Squadron
- 3 recon platoons with 5 armoured cav + 2 sentinels
- 1 sentinel platoon, with 10 sentinels
- 1 mechanized platoon with HQ + 4 infantry recon units (suitable for urban/wooden areas recon)

8th Assault engineers Company
3 Assault Engineers Platoons: HQ + 4 mechanized assault engineer squads
1 Assault Tanks platoon, with HQ + 3 hellhound flammer tanks

9th Field Artillery Batallion
2 batteries of 6 selfpropelled basilisk guns
1 Battery of 6 Assault guns

Is it correct now? I assigned a heavy mortar battery to the infantry batallion directly under the command of the dude commanding the batallion and created a new FA batallion (if a miserable 18 pieces of artillery can be said to be a batallion, that is). I included the assault guns in that FA batallion but I am unure about that. Should the assault gun section be a self-standing platoon/battery? SHould the mortars be assigned to the FA batallion? Questions questons, hehe

Xavi

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Legion 4

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:10 pm

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36987
Location: Ohio - USA

Alright then, I didn't confuse you! Good!

?

Yes, then your Medics would be in a Medical Platoon.

As far as FA. A Regiment/Brigade would have an FA Bn in support, so that would be (by US standards) about 24 guns. For example, the last unit I served in ('86-'90), the 197th Mech Brigade was, organized as follows:

- 2 Mech Infantry Bns (M113s, I commanded one of these Companies),
- 1 Armored Bn (M60/M1),
- 1 FA Bn (SP 155mm/M109),
- 1 Combat Engineer Company,
- 1 Armored Cav Troop (Troop = Company in Cav terms),
- 1 Support Bn (Medics, Transport, Maintenance, etc.,) +
- An MP Platoon. ?

Kind of sounds like your organization. If you're going for a light armored organization, that is to be used for "hit & run" (or "shoot and scoot" as we used say) then you are looking at an Armored Cav Rgt. Organized like your unit:

- 2 Armored and
- 1 Infantry Bn, etc. ?

That means your troops could were blue cowboy hats, like the US Cav does! :laugh:

?

Saw them on the news again today! :;):

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Legion 4

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 3:26 pm

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Oh, I see you and I were replying at the same time! O.K. ... looks better...

A Bn is commanded by a Lt. Col. and a Major is his 2nd in command.

The mortars are organic to the Infantry Bn and under the command of the Bn Cdr (a 1LT actually leads it, the LTC thru the S-3, tells him where to fire, usually). These are infantry weapons manned by infantrymen.

Your FA would a separate Bn of 18 guns. That is a good amount of firepower.

The Assault Gun Battery would be part of the FA Bn, in this case.

The FA Bn is separate unit assigned to the Rgt and it fires in support of the units in the Rgt. And is commanded by a Lt. Col (LTC)... :;):

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MaksimSmelchak

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:12 pm

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Hi Xavi,

Don't forget that US and British military parlance are very different let alone Russian military terminology or others. L-4 knows US military talk.

Shabbat Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.

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Xavi

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 5:21 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
Posts: 939
Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

I know Maksim, but is still a reference point

Mostly is misstranslation on my part. In the references I took (spanish armopured regiment) a platoon is called a section, for example, but for easiness of understanding for English parlance dudes I am translating this kind of things.

@L4: About trhe organization, I will tweak what you say. Let's see if I got it right:

- The mortars are ok where they are I think then. Good :cool:

- I should add an other artillery battery and drop the assault cannons (direct fire artillery) to be a 4th section?

- The whole artillery batallion will be lead by a LTC.

- The rest is ok.

Xavi

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Cuban Commissar

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 8:37 pm

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Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:32 am
Posts: 2933
Location: Colorado, USA

Legion 4,

I got a question that relates to this discussion. In a Field Artillery Battation, with 3 batteries, each battery with 6-8 guns (9 for our beloved IG). What officer level commands each unit. Is this how it works?

Battalion - Lt. Col
Battery - Captain
Section (2 - 3 guns) - Lt

I also understand that an Artillery Battery is actually broken down between two "firing" sections/platoons and one fire control section/platoon. So a standard battery of 6 guns would have 2 sections each with 3 guns and 1 Fire Control HQ section.

Can you confirm or correct any of this for me thanks.

Take Care

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Legion 4

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Sun Aug 22, 2004 2:24 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
Posts: 36987
Location: Ohio - USA

Yes, to all your questions Xavi and Cuban Commissar. You guys have done your homework! :;):

?

And thanks Maksim for the editing!

?

I am obviously knowledgeable about US Forces after serving in four Infantry Bns, being attached to an Armor Bn and assigned to a Support Bn and Mech Bde HQs.

But I have a pretty good grasp of many major NATO and USSR organizations too. ?

But as Xavi says language, plays a big part too. :;):

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Xavi

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:43 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2003 12:30 am
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Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)

Oh, a last question about the support squadrons:

1) For what I get, the regiment is only the armoured batallion (3 tank squadrons/companies) and the mechanized infantry batallion (2 MZ infantry companies). Then we have support elements (engineer batallion, artillery batallion and recon squadron) that do NOT belong to the regiment but are attached elements from other regiments (a recon regiment, an artillery regiment and an "assault" regiment). Is that right or do some of them belong to the XVIIth regiment (this is this specific regiment) even if they do not belong to the 2 main batallions?

2) I think that the FA battery should be like that. Correct me if I am wrong:

HQ (Captain)

9th Field Artillery Battery
3 batteries of 6 selfpropelled basilisk guns

1 Battery of 6 Assault guns

The last direct fire battery is only one platoon that opperates on its own, right?

3) I am unsure if I should attach the assault engineers to the mechanized batallion, making it 4-companies big: 1 tank squadron, 2 mechanized companies and 1 enegineer company. The other option is to put them as they are now, with the engineers operating on their own and being attached as needed.

4) In the recon squad I have a mechanized platoon of scouts, so they can opperate in more dense areas like woods and the like where the other vehicles can have problems operating. Is that correct or should I drop them?

Thx in advance,

Xavi

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Legion 4

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:36 am

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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm
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1). In most cases if the Rgt/Bde is part of a Div.(3 Rgts/Bdes per Div.), those assets like Combat Engineers will be attached from the Engineer Bn organic to the Div.

In a Separate Rgt or Bde like my old unit the 197th Mech Bde, that I described earlier, all those units are organic to the Bde.

But on occasions based on mission, we'd even have other units attached to us, from other Divisions or Corps assets. All come under the Rgt/Bde Cdr and he can use them as he sees fit. Even attaching some of them to the Bns.

So the answer is: Yes! ? ? ? ? ?

2) The FA Bn is 3 Batteries under command of a Lt.Col. (LTC). The Batteries are commanded by CPTs.

The Assault Gun Platoon of 6 vehicles would most likely be part of the FA Bn. And probably would be detached and assigned by the Regimental Cdr to one of the maneuver bns (Armor or Infantry), during combat ops.

FA is a combat arm but is not a Maneuver unit. In most cases, the field guns/howitzers of the FA Bn will never see the enemy but it's fire will be called in on them.

FA is the biggest killer on the battlefield.

The Assault Guns (most armies no longer use these type weapons but the 40K universe is stuck in WWII!) will see a lot of action up front supporting the infantry and tanks.

3) You could do either based on the mission. This is called "cross attaching".

In all Infantry Bns I served in, this was standard operating procedures and US Army doctrine. A Tank Co. was attached to an Inf Bn, and an Inf Co. from that Bn was attached to the Armor Bn. And a Cbt Eng Platoon may be attached to each. Or the complete Cbt Eng Co. was deployed by the Bde Cdr to set up obstacles, mines, etc.

4) Recon/Scout units, whether Mech or Light. can operate (like all infantry units) in most types of terrain.

Example: our Bn's Mech Scout Plt often dismounted and ran squad night patrols as did all our Mech Infantry Plts along the DMZ in the ROK. Keep the Scouts!

I commanded a Recon Tm as a Cadet, trained on lessons learned by my instructors (Special Forces/Rangers) in Vietnam.

Scout/Cav/Recon units are always useful... :;):

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vanvlak

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 6:54 am

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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
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Gulp! Legio (IV) Encyclopaedia!
Interesting stuff, L4! :cool:

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Justiniel

Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 9:13 am

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When are they releasing Codex Legio IV anyway? In the near future I hope.
Most useful stuff L4, will have to try and reorganise my troops again now!

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