Regimental Organization (help needed) |
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed)  Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:52 pm |
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Location: Ohio - USA
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Mojarn Piett
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:14 pm |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:35 am
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Location: Finland
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So let me get my artillery terminology straight:
The lowest unit is individual gun + crew and that is a section.
A battery is several (usually 3+) guns.
A battalion is several (again 3+ I presume) batteries
A Regiment is several (3+ ?) battalions.
In Finnish the equivalent terms are:
Jaos
Patteri
Patteristo
Rykmentti
Just thought you'd like to know... 
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:40 pm |
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A gun is referred to as just that - a "gun" or a "tube" in GI slang.
2-3 guns is a section or platoon depending on the army and how they are deployed.
2-4 Platoons = a Battery.
You have the Bn and Rgt correct. ?
And I'll have to take your word on the Finnish translation!
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Cuban Commissar
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 11:30 pm |
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| Purestrain |
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Location: Colorado, USA
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Let us also remember the standard German Kumpgrupen. (SP? - I think it translate to battlegroup for task force.)
This was the practice of grabbing anyhting and everything at your disposal required to complete the mission putting it under an officer in charge and telling him take this objective ot stop those guys. Like Task Force Peiper during the Ardennes Offensive in 1944. If drove allied intelligence nuts keeping tarck of these different battlegroups. Such haphazard organization allows you the fexibility to build your force in almost any fashion.
But I still like having structure. As least as a foundation for fluff.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 2:12 am |
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Thanks L4, your insight has been interesting to read.
I use a structure close to modern US Army for my non-Epic armies (Dirtside) except for the space drop unit.
My space drop force is a much more self contained force. I figured something sent in a ship and made to be self supporting for a while. For this kind of force I looked at a set up more like a Marine Expeditionary Unit. Small, well rounded force including it's own artillery and air support.
Anyway, have a great day guys. ?
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 5:30 am |
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The way the US Army task organizes is probably based on the WWII German "Kampf Gruppe" or Battle Group. However towards the end of the war the Germans did just throw together what they could, out of necessity not by choice.
A Battle Group (BG) in modern US Army organizations is equal to a Bde or Rgt.
A Task Force (TF) is equal to a Bn.
These units are made of units organic to the Bde or Bn plus other units from elements in the Bde, Div. or Corps.
A cross attached company, ie. - 2 Mech Infantry platoons and 1 Tank platoon is called a Mech Heavy Company Team. A Tank Hvy Tm would be reversed.
A TF would include Infantry and Tank Cos (3-4 +). And a BG would be Infantry and Tank Bns (3-4 +). Plus Cbt Eng, ADA, etc. ?It's all about flexibility and combat effectiveness.
---
Glad I could help and that you found it interesting reading.
I organize my SM Drop Rgts (I have 2) based on SM1 templates and these are more like WWII Airborne Divs. Drop Pods (Paras), Dropships (Gliders) and Gunships/Choppers, (Thunderhawks & Speeders) [Oops that's 'Nam !].
But it works!
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Xavi
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2004 4:58 pm |
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Location: University of Essex, Colchester, UK (soon to be Brighton, Sussex, UK)
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Ok, so, for what i get I am organizing a small battle group (regiment-sized) more than a "pure" regiment. Right.
Ok, so it ends up as I described then  4 armoured squadrons, 2 mech infantry companies, 1 engineer company 1 recon squadron and 1 FA battery
Sounds good to me !
Thx for all the help guys. 
Now, a related but not equal question:
I am using this to create a small 40k armoured company force (obvious since I have loads of tanks there!). I have thought about making it into an Epic force, though. More for the looks than for actual playing since nobody that i know plays epic 
My question would be if this would be good for your average epic force. If it would represent a real epic fighting force, basically. My background forbids me from using titans or baneblades except in a few very specific cases since the oniss federation is supposed to have only a few of those and they are not commited under most circumstances since they are too valuble assets. On the other hand they still produce shadowsword-type super heavy tanks in small numbers, so a small squadron of 3 of them could be available if they are any good (besides, i like the model ).
Do you think that a company like that would be a real fighting force in epic? Would I need shadowswords (or the plasma variant) in most circumstances? How many points would that be? Too few infantry? Too much tanks? Too few/much AA? Thanks in advance.
Regards,
Xavi
PS: is this topic a sticky one? Weird....
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 6:23 am |
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I think you have a pretty good force there for Epic. And Shadowswords could be attached from a higher echelon, to take on enemy Titans. Works for me ...
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:01 pm |
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We basically use SM1 templates with additions from SM2, E40K, etc. for our TO&Es. For example, for Combat Engineers, we use Mk.1 Gorgons to lay and remove mines and obstacles. And Gorgon Mk. 2's and 3's to remove mines and obstacles (with that big dozer blade in front) and carry Cbt Eng troops. Again, it works for us !
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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dafrca
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 4:30 pm |
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| Quote (MaksimSmelchak @ 27 2004 Aug.,06:53) | | Save most extra units for the next edition of Epic when the organization will CHANGE yet again! |
Funny, I was doing the same thing. I have some stuff where after reqrganization to the new EA numbers I have a couple of stands left over. Rather then dump them, I am setting some aside so that in the future I can add them back in if need be. 
dafrca
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Tas
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:09 am |
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| Quote (Cuban Commissar @ 22 2004 Aug.,05:37) | Legion 4,
I got a question that relates to this discussion. ?In a Field Artillery Battation, with 3 batteries, each battery with 6-8 guns (9 for our beloved IG). ?What officer level commands each unit. ?Is this how it works? ?
Battalion - Lt. Col
Battery - Captain
Section (2 - 3 guns) - Lt
I also understand that an Artillery Battery is actually broken down between two "firing" sections/platoons and one fire control section/platoon. ?So a standard battery of 6 guns would have 2 sections each with 3 guns and 1 Fire Control HQ section.
Can you confirm or correct any of this for me thanks.
Take Care |
As an ex-Artillery Officer in the Australian Army, I can say we do things a little differently to how L4 says the US Army does! Though what L4 says is up to his usual standard of inviolate accuracy for his Army!
A Battery of 6 Guns (light or medium) is usally deployed together. ?It is commanded by a Major with a Capt as 2IC and 2 x LTs. ?It also has 3 x Capts who act as Foward Observers and are detached to the supported Infantry or Armoured units (usually at the Company level). ?Similarly, the Major in Command of the Battery is usually with Co of the Supported unit HQ (ie Battalion HQ) so the Capt is usually the officer on the ground controlling the battery.
The battery can be deployed in two sections of 3 guns and if so a LT commands each. ?When the battery is together they each turn in controlling the movement of the guns and conducting recon of alternative firing positions.
Three Gun Batteries comprise an Artiilery regiment (British style language, would be a US Atry Battalion) which then has a HQ battery of support personnel (no guns). ?The Regiment is commanded by a Lt Col and like the Majors in his batteries, he is usally with the Brigadier commanding the Brogade he is attached to and advising him on how to deploy and utilise his Artillery assets.
How that makes it clear as the mud on your boots! ?happy to answer any other Arty type qns (when I'm about that is!)
Cheers
tas
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Tas
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Tas
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 4:17 am |
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Nice job on your Organisation there Xavi - lots of good research and thought. ?I'm always flicking through organisations of forces from all ages and periods to try and determine the best mix for a particular job. ?Of course there is no correct answer except what works on the day and its a very addictive branch of wargaming!
As for too much armour/infantry/AA - well it all depends on the terrain, enemy and mission. No one force will ever be perfect for all situations. Its making the best of what you've got that counts. Thats why options in a force are important - if necessary those AA sections can always be lef up on the Orbital transports in order to make room for that superhavy squadron because of the Intel report on the expected enemy composition...
Of course most of this is preaching to the choir... 
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My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 6:01 am |
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Well good to hear from you Tas ! Got your e-mail too ! Well in appears the US and the Aussies do things a little differently ... but in the end it all goes to the same goal ... killing the bad guys !
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tas
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Post subject: Regimental Organization (help needed) Posted: Sat Aug 28, 2004 9:21 am |
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We take a bit from our British heritage, mix it with our experiences and massage the whole so it works alongisde our Allies. And as you say, its the Victory at the end that justifies the means!
Ooh Rah!
Tas
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Tas
My General blog: http://tasmancave.blogspot.com/
My VSF Blog: http://pauljamesog.blogspot.com/
My ECW Blog: http://declaresir.blogspot.com/
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) that I served in more combat units in 10? years then most do in 20! 