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[BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4

 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:55 am 
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Got in yet another Eldar playtest, this time at 3000 points.  Played it at the GW Bunker in Oakville, Ontario.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 12:57 am 
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Rules Used

All experimental rules.
Eldar Experimental Rules 1.3
Terminator Detachments 350 points
TSKNF
Marine leader removes 2 BMs.
Marines never outnumbered, only vastly outnumbered.

Armies

Biel-Tan Lighting Riders - 3000 points

Avatar

Wraithgate

Aspect Warrior Warhost 1
8 Warp Spiders
1 Exarch
1 Autarch

Aspect Warrior Warhost 2 - (BTS Goal)
4 Dire Avengers
2 Fire Dragons
1 Exarch
2 Swooping Hawks
1 Exarch
2 Wave Serpents
2 Falcons

Guardian Warhost 1
1 Farseer
3 Heavy Weapons Platforms
2 Guardians
3 Support Weapon Platforms
2 Wraithguard

Guardian Warhost 2
1 Farseer
3 Heavy Weapons Platforms
4 Guardians

Ranger Troupe 1
5 Rangers

Ranger Troupe 2
5 Rangers

Windrider Troupe 1
5 Jetbikes
1 Vyper

Windrider Troupe 2
5 Jetbikes
1 Vyper

Swords of Vaul - Falcons
4 Falcons
1 Firestorm

Swords of Vaul Troupe - Prisms 1
3 Fire Prisms
1 Falcon
1 Firestorm

Swords of Vaul Troupe - Prisms 2
3 Fire Prisms
1 Falcon
1 Firestorm


Ultramarine Expeditionary Force - 3000 points

Tactical HQ - (BTS Goal)
Supreme Commander
6 Razorbacks (Lascannons)

Tactical Detachment 1
Librarian
2 Dreadnaughts

Land Speeders
1 Typhoon

Terminator Detachment
Chaplian

Assault Detachment
Chaplain

Whirlwind Detachment 1
1 Hunter

Whirlwind Detachment 2
1 Hunter

Devastator Detachment
1 Land Raider
1 Librarian





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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:00 am 
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Setup and Objectives

4x6 table
Marines chose long edge deployment.



Garrisons and Deployment

Marines kept the Terminators in reserve.

Biel-Tan kept the Warp Spiders and Windrider Troupe 2 in the Webway.

Marines garrisoned Tactical Detachment 1 and the Land Speeders well forward and on overwatch, with the Speeders *not* popped-up.

Biel-Tan garrisoned both Ranger Troupes in cover and on overwatch.

Remaining deployment as below:





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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:24 am 
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Turn 1

No teleports.

Strategy roll: Ultramarines

Whirlwind Detachment 1 opens up by sustaining fire on Ranger Troupe 1, killing a single unit of Rangers.

The garrisoned Tactical Detachment then sustains fire on Ranger Troupe 2, also killing a single unit of Rangers.

Ranger Troupe 1 tries to enact some vengeance, but fails to get in the game and only regroups? removing only 2 of their 3 Blast markers!

The Assault Detachment jumps forward on a double, moving straight ahead towards the Eldar lines and taking cover in the woods.

Prism 1 doubles forward, lancing some shots at Whirlwind 2, but only placing a Blast marker, but they have positioned themselves in close range of Tactical Detachment 1.

The Webway Portal opens and a stream of Warp Spiders emerge to engage Tactical Detachment 1, with the support of Prism Troupe 1. ?The Marines are shredded, a single Dreadnaught escapes the destruction rapidly moving back to the Marine baseline? and not a single Eldar warrior has fallen? and they move into cover.

So Whirlwind Detachment 2 sustains fire, catching both the Warp Spiders and the Fire Prisms? and, again, no Eldar are lost. ?(My opponent was quite? pissed? by this? the noise of all the kids on summer break in the gaming hall kind of drowned out his response, so I can't quote anything?)

The Falcon Troupe doubles forward on a hit-and-run to pop up on the Land Speeders, positioning themselves out of line-of-sight of the Typhoon, and bag one Speeder. ?They then jet down the road towards the right flank.

The Devastator Detachment rumbles forward to blast Prism Troupe 1 and only the Firestorm survives to rapidly flee for cover.

Guardian Warhost 1 doubles forward to just barely put a Blast marker on the Assault Detachment.

Tactical HQ mounts up to double forward and lays a lot of fire on the Falcon Troupe, destroying 3 Falcons and easily breaking the formation.

Prism Troupe 2 doubles forward on a hit-and-run to fire on the Tactical HQ. ?Two Razorbacks and 1 Tactical squad fall to the laser attack.
Windrider Troupe 1 doubles forward to get a sneaky shot off at the Land Speeders (Just inside of the Typhoon range, so it was suppressed by the formation's 2 Blast markers) and places another Blast marker.

The Land Speeder shift from their position to advance on Prism 2, melting away 1 Falcon and 1 Fire Prism, breaking the Troupe!

Aspect Warhost 2 doubles forward to pour fire on the Tactical HQ? resulting in a single Blast marker.

Guardian Warhost 2 marches forward, sticking to cover.

While Ranger Troupe 2 stays on overwatch?

End of Turn: All formations except the lone Dreadnaught of Tactical Detachment 1 rally?

View from Eldar left flank:


View from Eldar right flank:

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:24 am 
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Ooh can't wait... prediction - things will go grimly for the marines...  :;):

(Edit - just read first turn, hmm that's an awful lot of dead eldar tanks...  :O )





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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 1:56 am 
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Turn 2

The Terminators teleport right into the thick of things and pick up a Blast marker for their trouble!



Strategy roll: Ultramarines

Tactical HQ sustains fire on Aspect Warhost 2, catching them in a crossfire with the Terminators? and downs a single Falcon? but places 3 Blast markers!

The Terminators prepare to engage the battered Aspect Warriors, think better of it, consider the plan some more, and then just wind up shooting? killing a Dire Avenger and placing 3 more Blast markers with the help of the crossfire. ?(An inauspicious start for the Marines.)

Aside - Now a little debate occurred. ?My initial plan was to use Aspect Warhost 2 to engage the Tactical HQ and the intermingled Land Speeder Formation, within 10cm of the Tacticals and having a Blast marker, but, as I discussed this with my opponent, who agreed that it was "okay by the rules", I began to feel that it wasn't in the *spirit* of the rule for scouts and intermingling, since the Speeders weren't really trying to screen the Tacticals or anything, they just happened to be in a bad location. ?What do people think of that kind of intermingling? ?I reconsidered my approach and went a different route.

Windrider Troupe 1 advances into support range and fires on Tactical HQ, placing a single Blast marker.

Now Aspect Warhost 2 moved forward to engage the shot-up Tactical HQ, moving away from the Terminators as well! ?The Tacticals counter-charged, bringing the nearby Jetbikes into the fray and the battle was joined! ?

The Eldar lose a Vyper, a Falcon, and a Fire Dragon and the Ultramarines lose? everything except 1 Razorback, which heads for the hills! ?Despite their victory, the Aspect Warriors break as well, and head back to the cover of the deep Eldar lines.

Hoping to show up her warrior brothers and sisters, the Autarch leads her Warp Spiders in an assault against Whirlwind Detachment 1. ?

One Whirlwind is destroyed and only 1 Warp Spider goes down, even with the support of the nearby Terminators, and the Eldar win by "1", breaking and pushing back the Marine missile tanks, while moving to get the other Whirlwinds within their scouts zone of control.

The Land Speeders double forward to blast Guardian Warhost 1, placing a single Blast marker and positioning themselves for some support?

Which the Assault Detachment takes advantage of, engaging the stunned Eldar. ?Three Assault Marines are cut down, along with 2 Guardians and a Wraithguard, but the Marines are just able to push the Eldar back, wrecking a Support Platform in the process! ?The Marines break as well.

The surviving Firestorm of Prism Troupe 1 doubles forward to fire on the Devastators and actually drops one of the Marine squads with raking laser fire.

Windrider Troupe 2 then rockets out of the Webway to engage the Devastators in a firefight. ?Two Jetbikes go down in flames, but another Devastator and the Librarian and his retinue are killed and the Marines are pushed back by "1".

Unwilling to engage the Warp Spiders, Whirlwind Detachment 2 advances away from them and fires on Windrider Troupe 1, trashing 3 Jetbikes and breaking the formation.

The Falcon Troupe tries to advance, but freaks out and breaks instead. (Spirit Stones not being effective on clearing Blast markers from broken units is a *big* change? for the better, I feel!)

Ranger Troupe 2 doubles forward to fire on the Terminators? placing a single Blast marker.

Ranger Troupe 1 doubles forward to fire on the Terminators? also placing a single Blast marker.

Guardian Warhost 2 doubles forward to fire on the Terminators? placing a single Blast marker for a total of six on the poor Terminators!


End of Turn: Some rallies are passed, some aren't, but a lot of Blast markers remain!








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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:11 am 
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Turn 3

The Avatar is summoned by Guardian Warhost 2, within 5cm of them, and menacing the Terminators?

Strategy roll: Biel-Tan? on a tie!

The Avatar demands Guardian Warhost 2 to accompany Him while he engages the Terminators? who all oblige by piling onto the Avatar! ?Two Terminators go down, including the Chaplain, but they manage to score a crit on the Avatar and take out 2 Guardians and a Heavy Weapon Platform? the Eldar narrowly win by "1".

The Warp Spiders then warp right through the Imperial Cathedral to engage Whirlwind Detachment 2? and shred all the Marine tanks before the Marines knew they were there, before jumping back to threaten Whirlwind Detachment 1 and contest the Marine Blitz. (Okay, I gotta say it, Warp Spiders are sick? something needs to be done about them, I would always take Warpies over any other Aspect if I had the models? maybe they need to lose scouts or something, or have their armour dropped? I just don't know? they eviscerated the Marines? I don't think I've ever had the *not* get their points value and more in a game.)

Guardian Warhost 1 doubles forward again to blast the Land Speeders and knocks one out of the air and contest Eldar Objective 1

The heavily suppressed Whirlwinds of Detachment 1 advance away from the Warp Spiders and rain rockets down on them? knocking over the Autarch's thermos of tea for a single Blast Marker.

Windrider Troupe 2 braves the forest (3 models landed in the dangerous terrain, but all survived!) to engage Whirlwind Detachment 1. ?They lose a Jetbike and take out 2 Whirlwinds to break the Marine tanks.

The Land Speeders make a desperate move by marching all the way to the Eldar Blitz, contesting it with Aspect Warhost 2.

The nearby Aspect Warriors retaliate by engaging the Land Speeders, losing a Wave Serpent, but wiping out the Marines and securing the Eldar Blitz.

With the still living, though unconscious Supreme Commander on board, the last surviving Razorback of the Tactical HQ stays hidden and marshals, clearing all Blast markers.

Ranger Troupe 1 marches to secure the Wraithgate.

The Firestorm of Prism Troupe 1 secures Marine Objective 1 by going on overwatch?

End of Turn: Biel-Tan 4 (Blitz, DTF, T-n-H, TSNP) vs Marines 0 (none)





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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:19 am 
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The game as actually a lot closer than it looked, if Marines had gotten the first go in Turn 3, things would've been much uglier for the Eldar.

Still digesting the proposed Eldar changes, but with this many games under my belt I've definitely got some opinions, which I hope to share soon.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:25 am 
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Aside - Now a little debate occurred.  My initial plan was to use Aspect Warhost 2 to engage the Tactical HQ and the intermingled Land Speeder Formation, within 10cm of the Tacticals and having a Blast marker, but, as I discussed this with my opponent, who agreed that it was "okay by the rules", I began to feel that it wasn't in the *spirit* of the rule for scouts and intermingling, since the Speeders weren't really trying to screen the Tacticals or anything, they just happened to be in a bad location.  What do people think of that kind of intermingling?  I reconsidered my approach and went a different route.


I absolutely agree that you did the right thing here and ignored the as written intermingling rules. I consider that they are very broken, and wish others would see it the same way.

I really do not see why the intermingling rule even exists - just use the mechanism from the old epic40k set, or the current 40k set. If you can get within 15cm of something you can draw it into an engagement. If not you can't. Couldn't be simpler and it works very well. No more stupid 'engaging some scouts and breaking a unit on the other side of the battlefield' problems.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:37 am 
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The Falcon Troupe tries to advance, but freaks out and breaks instead. (Spirit Stones not being effective on clearing Blast markers from broken units is a *big* change? for the better, I feel!)


Lol! I hate it when that happens.

I also agree with you about warp spiders... they need some work alright.  What is the justification for giving them scout anyway??

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 2:47 am 
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(Markconz @ Aug. 03 2006,02:37)
QUOTE
I also agree with you about warp spiders... they need some work alright. ?What is the justification for giving them scout anyway??

I'm not sure, my opponent and I, both ex-GW staffers, couldn't recall anything about them being particularly stealthy and scouty... I mean, they can get the drop on opponents and teleport about, maybe it represents the "uncertainty" of where they actually are.

I don't really mind them, they just need *some* kind of toning down, maybe just first strike on their deathspinners instead of all their attacks.

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:23 am 
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Well, currently their stats for Infiltrate, Jump Packs and First Strike are due to the ability to teleport around. With that whole 'Moves as if it had jump packs but can move away from the enemy just as fast in the same turn' bit. Essentially they do exactly the same thing in 40K current as in Epic. Only not as well. Mostly because of the way armor works in 40K current. Being able to land 13 hits on the enemy isn't terribly impressive when they can save all but 3-4 of them after all! A max-sized unit of them is lucky to kill a single marine squad.

But they're still quite good at what they're  good at in Epic. If anything we might consider moving all the 4+ armor-save infantry in the Eldar to 5+ for their standard infantry. Since while they DO have the same armor-value as marines, they're significantly more fragile as they're only T3 instead of T4. Similar to how despite IG having better armor then Orks, the orks still have an armor save and IG don't. Simply because IG aren't tough enough to deserve said saves while orks natural durability makes them less vulnerable to damage.


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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:32 am 
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Don't you ever do any work Chroma! LOL!!

Nice report



If you can get within 15cm of something you can draw it into an engagement. If not you can't. Couldn't be simpler and it works very well. No more stupid 'engaging some scouts and breaking a unit on the other side of the battlefield' problems.

Mark, do you mean that you only get to engage the unit you are attempting to? I misread what you were proposing the first time i read it - thought you meant any formation in 15cm could get drawn into the assault(i.e another formation 15cm away) - which is worse than 10cm ... Am I back on track correctly here?

I totally agree with you on getting rid of Intermingled though.






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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:39 am 
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Pure supposition, but could the Scout ability on Warp Spiders be intended to convey their ability to "threaten" a larger area with their warp packs?  Would Infiltrator be better description of the 40K game mechanic?  

On a different note, would eliminating Scout (and not adding anything to replace it) really make the Warp Spiders less sick?  Chroma, have I read your Turn 2 report correctly in that, without Scout, they wouldn't have "pinned" the second formation of Whirlwinds?

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 Post subject: [BatRep] Eldar Rules review playtest #4
PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2006 4:39 am 
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(Chroma @ Aug. 03 2006,02:47)
QUOTE
I don't really mind them, they just need *some* kind of toning down, maybe just first strike on their deathspinners instead of all their attacks.

Maybe you'll just have to use this as a house rule mate. Doesn't look like that idea will be given any heed. Look how hard the current proposals are to get through. Adding yet ANOTHER one??


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