[Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? |
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Chroma
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them?  Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 2:40 am |
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Okay, I love Howling Banshees... in 40k, but I *never* take them in EPIC.
If I want first strike, I'd much rather take Warp Spiders, as they have so much more going for them.
For CC, I'd rather had Striking Scorpions to get the two attacks and better armour.
I'd even take Shining Spears over them... *laugh*
Has anyone else found them lacking? Could they be improved by increasing their movement or even giving them infiltrators? Currently, I just don't have a use for them.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:16 am |
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I don't know about power-wise... But fluff-wise they really feel extremely weak. About the only thing they have going for them is 3+ CC ability, which seems a little weak for a unit which tears up entire squads. Their entire squad is supposed to be armed with power-weapon equivilents, would it be so bad to give them all Macro-Weapons in CC? No extra attacks, just Macro-Weapons and First Strike? Maybe drop them back to CC 4+ if that makes them too good. That'd give you some real reason to take them over Warp Spiders or even Dire Avengers! I don't know if this would make them too good, but it would fit with the fluff and their battlefield role of going after heavily-armored enemies.
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dafrca
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:34 am |
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| Quote (Chroma @ 14 May 2006 (18:40)) | | Okay, I love Howling Banshees... in 40k, but I *never* take them in EPIC. |
I think this is about the same way I felt. I never took them in Epic either. And yes, they were/are lacking when next to other aspects.
dafrca
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nealhunt
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:32 am |
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I don't think they are bad. Against lightly armored stuff with good CC (like Orks), they are wickedly effective. The Banshees lose effectiveness relative to Scorpions as you increase target armor (because the First STrike doesn't work) or decrease CC ability (because the effect of killing first is reduced). Large formations also tend to favor Scorpions over Banshees both for numbers of hits and the fact that you're only First Striking a proportionally smaller piece of the target formation.
Unfortunately, that means the "tipping point" for which is better puts a lot more units on the Scorpions-are-better column and that means for a blind tournament-style list everyone takes Scorpions.
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dptdexys
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 9:24 am |
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The Banshees are great if you are using the experimental (assault) rules.
They give an Eldar player the chance to wipe out small formations and re-position before the enemy has chance to attack back.
I've seen Banshees used very well in Games(one that comes to mind), Storm Serpent moves into position and BMs main target ,Banshees retain, come through wraithgate and wipe out Hydra flak cover with no attacks back,re-position to aid an air-assault on main target where the only counter charge possible was towards the first striking Banshees.
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Chroma
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 1:06 pm |
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| Quote (dptdexys @ 15 May 2006 (09:24)) | | I've seen Banshees used very well in Games(one that comes to mind), Storm Serpent moves into position and BMs main target ,Banshees retain, come through wraithgate and wipe out Hydra flak cover with no attacks back,re-position to aid an air-assault on main target where the only counter charge possible was towards the first striking Banshees. |
Sure, but why wouldn't you take Warp Spiders for the exact same mission instead? ?They've got longer "range", scout, and better armour, they beat Banshees for that kind of "alpha strike" hands down.
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dptdexys
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 3:45 pm |
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They maybe better in most cases (didn't say they were not)but there are times when you want a CC assault force even if it's just to deny your opponent his FF attacks and force them to use CC instead.
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thurse
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:26 pm |
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In "blind" GT game, I always stick to dire avengers, dark reapers and warp spiders, as they are IMHO opinion, the most versatiles.
The main problem with banshees and even scorpion is that they are CC troops with a 15cm move. So you'll be able to go in CC once : the turn where you disembark ( through Vampire / wave serpents / storm serpent ) after that, it's gonna be really harder to engage.
The only way to overcome that would be putting them in wave serpents, and consolidate back in the transports after an assault .
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Gotchaye
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:48 pm |
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neal - does that even make sense, though? Scorpions are the ones that are supposed to be good at taking on lots and lots of Orks. Banshees are supposed to be better at dropping highly armored stuff. When Banshees beat Scorpions for taking on lightly armored units, something's wrong.
dpt - first strike, however, means that you deny your opponent his FF attacks even if you're not in base contact. Plus, you can clip much more effectively with Spiders, where Banshees are going to get eaten up by the counter attacks of a larger formation.
I can't say that I've gotten much use out of any aspects other than Scorpions, Spiders, and Avengers.
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nealhunt
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 7:18 pm |
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| Quote (Gotchaye @ 15 May 2006 (18:48)) | | neal - does that even make sense, though? Scorpions are the ones that are supposed to be good at taking on lots and lots of Orks. Banshees are supposed to be better at dropping highly armored stuff. When Banshees beat Scorpions for taking on lightly armored units, something's wrong. |
I didn't say it was consistent with 40K. I was just doing the analysis. 
I think there is an argument for Banshees to have MW attacks. After all, they all carry power weapons and other comparably armed units have MW. Of course that would be something of a challenge to balance and, probably more importantly, would leave Shining Spears with even less to do than they do now.
I also get good use out of Reapers, especially Exarch Reapers. They end up with FF roughly equal to a DA exarch (because of the higher FF value on the Exarch extra attack) and get a 45cm ranged attack. Reapers are also nice for AP work in general as the army as a whole tends to be light on AP.
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Moscovian
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:26 pm |
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I do occasionally take the Banshees. My reasons for taking them depend primarily on delivery (warp gate, Vampire, whatever). If I can get them in close, I'll bring them. To echo Neal, sometimes I want to do CC, not just for the CC3+ first strike, but to deny the enemy their FF. The Banshees have been... eh, okay. Not bad, not great.
It's hard to differentiate between effectiveness and bad rolls, sometimes. Warp Spiders are invariably a disappointment for me (I think my stands are cursed), but the Shining Spears have rarely failed me.
I'll be playing this weekend, so I'll try the Banshees again and post how they do.
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Ilushia
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 8:48 pm |
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I don't think giving them Macro-Weapons would significantly detract from the Shining Spears. The Shining Spears are much faster, more then twice as much move-speed, have better armor saves and can move over impassable terrain (being skimmers). They also cost only as much as the basic Banshees and can still make use of the Wraithgates, so they're MUCH more mobile, IMHO, then the Banshees. As well as being tougher to actually kill, since they have better armor. While Banshees will usually get more hits, the Spears can reach melee from much further away. You can potentially go from behind a chunk of cover to melee range in a single charge without much difficulty. As it is I can't see any reason to take the Banshees at all, I'd much rather have Scorpions, Spiders or Spears in any army I built.
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Markconz
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 11:10 pm |
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Like Nealhunt said, Banshees have a niche where they excel, but unfortunately this niche is not as common as other Aspects niches. I think Banshees are ok as is, they just may not be the best choice for the average tournament game (but neither are several formation types).
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dafrca
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:14 am |
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| Quote (Markconz @ 15 May 2006 (15:10)) | | Like Nealhunt said, Banshees have a niche where they excel, but unfortunately this niche is not as common as other Aspects niches. |
I agree they may have a niche, but they are useless if that niche almost never comes up and it there are others who can handle the niche almost as well and yet can do other thing as well.
Just my .02
dafrca
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Gotchaye
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Post subject: [Aspects] Howling Banshees, does anyone take them? Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 1:34 am |
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If they're not a good choice for a tournament game, and if they're fine in terms of stats and abilities (something I disagree with - see earleir), then isn't the implication that something should be changed concerning the GT lists?
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