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Dark Eldar Proposal

Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 12:11 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Well, I was a bit bored this evening(not alot to do on Boxing Day

), so I started thinking: Just how would we go about representing the Dark Eldar in Epic: Armageddon. The above polls seem fairly conclusive that the Dark Eldar are in the minds of people, on and off. So, I thought: Why not give it a bash?

Well, it's not very well done at all I'm afraid, but I guess someone had to start the ball rolling(well, these days)!

So, here I offer you a very meagre attempt at crossing 'across' some of the stats, and perhaps a 'rough guesstimate' at how a such an army would be formed. I've missed the aircraft, and I'm sure a couple of other things, but I think it's 'reasonable' so far(ie for a first draft).

So, someone else with a better 'knack' for this to take over would be quite desirable, but here's hoping it sets the 'motion' into full swing!

Xisor

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vanvlak

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 8:05 am

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Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
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Location: Malta

Thanks Xisor - I've downloaded it, and I'll comment later, but at first glance it looks good.

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vanvlak

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2005 10:32 am

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Location: Malta

Good job, Xisor, a very nice try at the DE list. Comments in detail:

Kabal household ? looks ok, and I like the extra raiders + warriors

Kabal formation ? ok too ? could the Archon upgrade be made available for the household as well ? at a reduced cost than for the Kabal formation, perhaps?

Scourge formation ? ok

Ravager formation ? too cheap, perhaps? Then again, I?m not too good at setting points cost. Also, how about upgrades for adding more Ravagers or a limited number (0-2?) of Raiders with DE warriors as escort?

Coven formation and Harvester formation ? nice. I?m unsure about the Talos limit. Distinct Haemunculi rules would be nice, but counting them as Dracon is probably better.

Cult formation ? Warp Beasts would be nice; as well as a distinct purely jetbike formation.

To keep things simple, how about an Invulnerable Save for the Shadow Field?
Light vehicles works for open-topped, although it does leave the army rather vulnerable!

The stats look good with very few exceptions ? and some typically very DE problems:
1 - I?m not convinced by the macro ability of all the leader types. And removing these would leave a gap in the DE defences. Any ideas? New unit types, perhaps?
2 ? I?d add skimmer to the Raider and Ravager, and replace walker with skimmer for the Talos.

Thanks for the good work!

cheers,
John

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CyberShadow

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:39 pm

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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9348
Location: Singapore

Hi. I have moved this thread to the Epic Rules > Epic Armageddon board, as it does not concern official EA Eldar development.

Thanks.

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code_ronin

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2006 8:46 pm

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Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127

I think this list mixes Shadow Fields (wargear for a Leader) and Night Shield (wargear for a Raider or Ravager).

Shadow Fields should be Invulnerable Saves, vanvlak suggests.

Night Shields should be -1 to be hit.

I assume the Hit-and-Run Tactics only apply to the Hellions, as that is a notorious difference between the Eldar and Dark Eldar in 40K. (I think all of the other DE are too busy torturing their captives to bother running. :evil:

)

Shouldn't the Wyches have a Armour Save, but only for CC?

The Reavers need something to reflect that one-in-three are going to be upgraded to tank hunters (i.e. a Blaster). I think these will be hard to use, as the weak firefight will require getting into base-to-base contact with the enemy, which shortens your threat range by 15cm. I think the FF should be 4+.

Shouldn't the Talos have Skimmer? This affects how it shoots. Also, the Talos Sting is much more powerful than you have here. It is Assault 6 with a 24" range. It should be 20-30 cm, AP 5+, plus the FF should be 4+. Something like that.

You need to differentiate between mounted (Raider) and foot (Warrior) troops. Foot troops can carry 1 Dark Lance per 5, which is how many people play them, and it looks like you have that. But, the Raiders will more than likely carry the Shuriken Cannons, Blasters, and Sybarites with Agonizer, so they should get the CC/FF 4+ (with the Warriors getting 5+ on both).

Just some ideas, based upon Eldar values.

Hey, can we get this thread pinned?

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:20 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Shadowfield: Represented by an Inv Save on Leader Stands and as part of the units armour value.

Nightshield: Easiest way, IMO, is to simply have DE skimmers 'abstracted' to have a higher Armour Value than they would normally. Why? Well, we can assume they come with most of the trimmings you'd get in 40k(night shield etc), in this regards, I don't see why a simple 'higher than you'd think' armour value can't be accounted for with it. Also DE skimmers tend to be going very fast too, so hard to hit.

Hit & Run: I don't see why the whole shebang won't be using these tactics. Though in 40k only Hellions have it, I don't believe many Eldar units have it either...if any(Withdraw on WS comes to mind). I'd say both armies can have it, it fits their style. Also, DE aren't daft, they won't arse about torturing people when they are risking their lives. I'd say they're a bit too selfish to plausibly to that

The Wych thing is one I find quite difficult to deal with. I can't see how to properly accomodate their abilities. On one hand they should be capable...on the other hand I'm not keen on simply giving them a save in CC(but I will if I can't find a better way around this).

Reavers. Yup, they should have a blaster...silly me!

The Talos is only really a skimmer when it comes to small end difficult terrain. In terms of Epic, whilst it *is* a skimmer(ie hovering), it's not a true skimmer, it's really closer to a walker.

Warriors. I'm tempted to more or less miss out the Dark Lance sniper squads. Why? Well, every other list does this. Where as the Plasma Gun IG Squads? What about the twin flamer Marine Squads? It's easiest IMO to simply keep things as 'raider squads'. Their weaponry accounts for this, one in five will have a Splinter Cannon or Shredder(AP4+) and one in five will have a Blaster or Dark Lance (AT5+). So to abstract it, it's easy enough to call it a 15cm AP4+/AT5+.

If the list struggles against armour, or with certain things, I'm sure we can change as necessery, but I'm looking to keep it as relatively simple as possible.

More thoughts for now?

Nerroth did suggest an excellent idea. That of a 'leech' styled weapon that when it hits a War Engine, it reduces its speed rather than strictly damages it. Best ways to accomodate this as a weapon system anyone?

Xisor

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2006 9:48 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Now, I also did up a bit of a more complex list, hopefully being a bit better 'thought out' now. Fire at will!

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Nerroth

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:13 am

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Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:00 pm
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Well, I'd say make Leech cause the WE to reduce the allowed moves per order by 1, so March only lets you move twice, Double once, otherwise you're rooted to the spot! Additional Leech markers reduce Advance, Double, Engage or March initiative rolls by -1, perhaps.

Leech hits would be treated in the same manner as Void Shields are for removal purposes - so that Titan has to choose whether to remove BMs, repair Void Shields or remove Leech markers.

Perhaps make a variant of the Slavebringer armed with Leech Missiles replacing its transport, or something.

Gary

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:24 am

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

That sounds like the best idea for the Leeches. The Variant of the Slavebringer seems best, but curiously in BFG they use the Razorwing as a bomber...yet it's only 'anti-armour' weapons are the twin Dark Lances. I didn't even notice that. They also don't make use of the Raven fighter in BFG, it's the Raptor they use. Most perturbatory...

What about the new list? Look any better?

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 6:05 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
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There, thread name corrected (Cheers CS), so it'll look a bit more appealing a thread than a discussion about me :blush:

Now, I did a bit of testing with them, and found I can trounce myself using marines with them(ie against myself, the Marines lose). Still, only a couple of things came out of it, I'll put up v4 soon.

Xisor

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Moscovian

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:42 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
Posts: 6414
Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Xisor, I just recently put together an EA list for the Harlequins. On the list I had made rules for open deck vehicles (like the raiders) and such. I will email you and you can compare against what you have. Maybe you will like it, maybe you won't, but it seems to capture a Dark Eldar feel to it. LV IMO reflect the Raiders better - many describe them as flying wicker baskets.
Anyway, check out the vehicle descriptions and the Open Deck Transport Rules (which we designed for not-just-the-Harlequins).

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Moscovian

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:53 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Xisor, not sure if you got my email, but I had a LOT of free time on my hands and did a full run down using the Dark Eldar Codex, comparisons against Epic Eldar, etc. ?It took awhile but here it is.
Quite a departure from what you had, but you yourself said it was a rough draft. ?

Anyone else, feel free to rip in. ?I still think it's a bit too powerful, but I am hoping it's closer to a workable force.

I have a formatted rtf file that is easier on the eyes but too big for to attach here. I can email this to anyone who wants it.

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Moscovian

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sat Mar 18, 2006 2:16 pm

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Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 6:32 pm
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Location: Allentown, Pennsylvania USA

Although discussion has died on this over here, the conversation is alive and well at

TOPIC_ID=5243Specialist Games Forum

Please feel free to join in if you have input on the Dark Eldar.

A new updated list will be put out in a couple weeks. Playtest at your own risk! We're not quite there yet.

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 2:37 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Well, here's version 4 for reference. Changes marked in red[from v 3.9]

Xisor

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Xisor

Post subject: Dark Eldar Proposal

Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:19 pm

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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm
Posts: 515

Here's a WIP 'between versions' list, affectionately called version X.

As I say, it's not finished, but it's a good indicator of the direction we're heading in.

Xisor

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