Page 1 of 1

[ 7 posts ]

Orks vs. Saim-Hann Re-match
code_ronin	Post subject: Orks vs. Saim-Hann Re-match Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 5:41 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm Posts: 127	Orks vs. Saim-Hann ...or "We wuz robbed last time an' it iznt gonna' happ'n agin" 2000 pts Thu night Epics and John and I were going to gang up on Ric's Space Wolves with our combined Saim-Hann forces, but Shawn's Orks busted through the door demanding a rematch, given he was robbed on a bad call last game. Sounds great to me, so off we go. Terrain This board was much different from last board in that it had three large patches of woods and one hill (one terrain piece in each quadrant). I don't want you to think I was complaining because I am not. Sometimes that is the type of terrain you get and you have to deal with it. My gut reaction was that a more open board was bad for Saim-Hann, but in this case it wasn't. It definitely warrants more study, especially against a shooting army. The objectives were pretty much centered and very close to the centerline. Armies Orks 'uge Mob (the Boyz) with probably every upgrade possible (I know he had three Stompas in it!) 'uge Biker Mob (the Bikerz) with Skorchas and Buggies, but mostly Bikes 2 Blitz Brigades (the Tankz) with at least 12 stands each and some kind of Weirdboy that hits on a 4+ 1 cute little Stormboyz Mob (the Stormboyz) There also might have been some little Mob of Kommandos Saim-Hann 2 Wind Rider War Hosts of 13 stands each (still haven't received my Shining Spears!) 2 Guardian Formations of 6 stands and 3 Wave Serpents each 1 Falcon Troupe of 5 Falcons 2 Cobras 1 Avatar Deployment The Orks setup first. The Boyz go in the center, the Tankz one on each flank, the Bikerz to my left of center, and the Stormboyz behind the Bikerz. Because he had no huge battery, I decided to deploy wingtip-to-wingtip and exhaust-pipe-to-nosecone with the Jetbikes. They went on my left behind the woods, as did one Cobra. The other Cobra and the Falcons went to my right behind the other woods. The two Guardian formations were in the center, dismounted. Turn 1 The first Ork activation is his right Tankz, which fail to activate, so they stumble forward. He considered re-rolling with his Supreme Commander, but decided against it, in case a more important unit fails. This becomes significant later on, as I now have no pressure on my right flank, as this was the only unit on that side. I futz around with Cobras trying to out-wait him; I want him to commit the Boyz first. His Bikerz roar forward and it looks just too good, so I move forward with the Falcons and Guardians and blast him, killing a handful and putting about six blast on it. I'm feeling good about this. His left Tankz double forward and blast away at my Cobra, putting a blast on it. The problem with this move is that he moved just a little too far forward. My Wind Riders are arrayed in two battle lines behind the woods, one behind the other, and both are in engagement range. The second Wind Riders roar forward, putting a blast on the and setting up for support and putting them within engagement range of the flank of the Bikerz, on the other side of the woods. (Do they even know what's coming? ) The Boyz finally commit and move forward and blast the Falcons, breaking them. The other Wind Rider formation then screams in and engages, totally destroying the Tankz formation. The charging Jetbikes then consolidate back behind the woods, but within engagement range of the Boyz. The last Guardian formation moves up to support range of the Boyz. Everything rallies and removes all blast except for the Bikerz. I can't remember if the Bikerz failed or simply removed three blast, but they still carried at least one blast over into the next turn. Turn 2 I won initiative and charged my Jetbikes (unsupported) into his Bikerz, destroying them completely. The Jetbikes then consolidated into 5cm range of the Boyz (10cm where there was the odd Stormboyz unit). The next Jetbike unit successfully retained initiative and charged into the Boyz. I had 30 4+ rolls and 12 5+ rolls, plus my Avatar, against his horde. When we looked at combat results, I was +10 over him before we even rolled. Then he rolled low and I rolled high; I think I killed something like 20-25 stands. The Jetbikes then pursued the Boyz, making sure I stayed within 5cm of them so I could hit them first thing next turn. The Tankz on the right doubled and blew up my Cobra, but was now out of position to support the Boyz on Turn 3 (should they win the initiative). With no more Ork units to move (he only had the broken Boyz, broken Stormboyz, and the Tankz) I decided to march everyone except the remaining Cobra at the Boyz and literally surround them from all sides, standing off 5cm. It would all come down to who won initiative next turn. (Well, maybe not, but Shawn certainly felt that if he lost initiative, he was doomed.) The Ork Boyz rallied, but still had something like 5+ blast on it. Turn 3 The Eldar win initiative and the Orks concede... Analysis Interestingly, what Shawn feels is 'broken' is not the 1+ initiative (he said he could live with that), but rather the Jetbike's stats of 4+ save, 4+ Firefight, and the ability to define whether the assault is Firefight or not. The kicker is, that's not a Saim-Hann thing; that is standard Eldar. Or is it? The more I thought about it, it is really about the concentration of power. Essentially it takes me only two activations to bring 16 4+ and 10 5+ rolls into assault, whereas it would take other Craftworlds 4 activations to bring the same kind of concentration to bear. And therein lies the difference between Saim-Hann's Wind Riders and the others'. In the end though, this is the real strength that I feel that the Saim-Hann should have. How else to represent them? They lose the ability to buy lots of other troop types (two Troupe selections per Wind Rider War Host versus three Troupe selections per Guardian War Host for other Craftworlds) and even then the other troops are tiny (as they probably should be). I am going to run the list (in pickup games, but not the Volistad campaign) at the modified points and with an Initiative of 2+, except for the Avatar, Titans, and Aspects, and see how I fare. I believe John has been doing the modified Initiative already. Also, this is one more game in which my Falcons basically did nothing to earn their keep. Same for the Cobras. I think next time I will only use Wind Riders, Guardians, and Dark Reapers (I only have one formation) and see how I fare. I think it will do well, as I am gaining a much healthier respect for the Guardians' 4+ Firefight in support. Dale _________________ Have keyboard, will travel.
Top

Markconz	Post subject: Orks vs. Saim-Hann Re-match Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:23 am
Purestrain Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2003 10:43 pm Posts: 7925 Location: New Zealand	Thanks for the report - what modified points will you be using? I'd also note that Biel Tan can (and do) bring 40 4+ rolls with two activations (two Dire Avenger/Stiking Scorpion formations in wave serpents). Of course the bikes are less vulnerable to counterattack. Orks are always going to struggle against pure skimmer armies I think, as even if they get to close combat they have to use their lousy firefight values. _________________ http://hordesofthings.blogspot.co.nz/
Top

jfrazell	Post subject: Orks vs. Saim-Hann Re-match Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:07 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm Posts: 144	Yes Craftworld Bandito reporting in (john, other game), Wolves also terminated with extreme predjudice (batrep later). Comanche hit and run tactics can indeed work quite well. I found in this game my falcons to be relatively brittle, as we engaged in more FF's. ?However, they run like true eldar - on the attack they can be quite effective. Last night I used the standard Sam Hain I rules to see how that would impact. ?It did indeed, allowing me to keep relatively close to my marine opponent in activations and follow up. In later games I shall likely follow the Biel Tan initiative setting. But concentration of fire and stick and move are keys. Whereas Code Ronin here was able to concentrate and attack to wipe out units, I was able to effectively hit and run to concentrate range fire and minimize casualties. Personally I think jetbikes and common guardians have FF values about 1 notch better than they should be.  As Sam Hain can concentrate on jetbikes, this magnifies the discrepancy. Not sure hwo to change that without impacting other lists.  On the other hand we haven't run up against Nids yet and a true combined arms opponent. _________________ "Advance to the Rear!"
Top

code_ronin	Post subject: Orks vs. Saim-Hann Re-match Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 7:28 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm Posts: 127	Quote (Markconz @ 27 Jan. 2006 (06:23)) Thanks for the report - what modified points will you be using? 250 pts for the host, +100 pts for +3 jetbikes or +150 pts for +6 jetbikes. I'd also note that Biel Tan can (and do) bring 40 4+ rolls with two activations (two Dire Avenger/Stiking Scorpion formations in wave serpents). Of course the bikes are less vulnerable to counterattack.

That's good to know. That means it is not an "evil Saim-Hann thing", but an "evil Eldar thing".

Orks are always going to struggle against pure skimmer armies I think, as even if they get to close combat they have to use their lousy firefight values.

Ain't that the truth. Hitting on 6+ (with a couple of 5+) and saving on 5+ (with a couple of no saves) versus 4+ hits and 4+ saves. I personally think they don't stand a prayer unless they take the 'uge formations, but having never played against anything but that, I would not know.

Dale the Wild Rider