Tactical Command
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Cleaning up Ulthw
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=5656		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  MC23 [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 1:29 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
At this time I pretty happy with the current list. The only sticking point for me is how I wrote the entry for Black Guardians. Any suggestions on making this clearer?
Author:  blackhorizon [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 7:11 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Where can I find the latest Ulthw? list? Just curious.
Author:  MC23 [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 10:15 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (blackhorizon @ 05 Dec. 2005 (01:11))
Where can I find the latest Ulthw? list? Just curious.

Ulthwe Eldar V 2.3 is in the Experimental Rules section for EPIC on the Specialist games site.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Mon Dec 05, 2005 2:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Current text:

Ulthw?'s need for long standing Guardian hosts have lead to veteran Guardian hosts. It is these veteran
Guardians that has earned the reputation given to Ulthw? Black Guardians. Because of their rarity you may only
have one Ulthw? Black Guardian Warhost in every three Warhost taken (round fractions up). Important Note:
Ulthw? Black Guardians often have more elaborate markings to their armour which were added during their long
use. They should be identifiably distinct in some fashion from the standard Guardians in the army.


Suggested text:

Due to the Craftworlds proximity to the Eye of Terror, Ulthw? maintains a standing defence force of veteran Guardians, the Black Guardians.

For every Black Guardian formation purchased, your next two Guardian formations fielded must be standard Guardian formations.

[Or: You may take a maximum of one Black Guardian formation for every two formations of 'standard' Guardians fielded - but this has a different meaning]

[Or: A maximum of one third (rounding up) of the Guardian formations purchased may be Ulthw? Black Guardians]

Important Note: Ulthw? Black Guardian formations are the Craftworlds elite soldiers and therefore wear more decorated and ornate armour. Your Black Guardians must be recognisable and distinct from other Guardian units on the tabletop.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Tue Dec 06, 2005 1:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (CyberShadow @ 05 Dec. 2005 (13:45))
[Or: A maximum of one third (rounding up) of the Guardian formations purchased may be Ulthw? Black Guardians]


This sounds the best option to me. Nice and simple.

Tiny
Author:  MC23 [ Wed Dec 07, 2005 1:54 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (MC23 @ 04 Dec. 2005 (19:29))
At this time I pretty happy with the current list. The only sticking point for me is how I wrote the entry for Black Guardians. Any suggestions on making this clearer?

Err, I was actually talking about the entry from the army list with costs and options. Does the background rules need cleaning up as well?
Author:  Malakai [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
A little off topic, but why exactly do Ulthw? black guardians have to be painted differently? I mean, as long as the controling player knows and is not trying to cheat anyone who cares right?

Malakai
Author:  nealhunt [ Fri Dec 09, 2005 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
I think it's in fairness to the opponent.  They need to have a way to reasonably distinguish the units.  And, as you noted, it's the "not trying to cheat" issue that becomes relevant for tournament lists.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Mon Dec 12, 2005 9:44 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
I don't see any need for further cleaning up of the list as it sits quite happilly with me.

I will still be using normal Guardians + Wraith instead of BG though.

Tiny
Author:  Chroma [ Wed Dec 14, 2005 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (Tiny-Tim @ 12 Dec. 2005 (08:44))
I will still be using normal Guardians + Wraith instead of BG though.

A question:

With them now having a difference in point cost and options, is the 1/3 rule for Black Guardians even needed?  Would it be out of balance for someone to take all Black Guardian formations?

I usually go 2 Normal and 2 Black in most of my armies, so even that is 50/50.  I'm not sure I'd go all Black unless I wanted to field some kind of rapid Strike Force or something.

To me, the limitation almost feels like merely a relic of previous lists and doesn't really need to remain.
Author:  Tiny-Tim [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
I think that the restriction should still stay for the simple reason that you could end up with a very large number of Black Guardian Hosts and although they are the standing army, normal or reservist guardians stillneed to be used.

Starts thinking of an all Black Guardian Army :p

Tiny
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (Tiny-Tim @ 15 Dec. 2005 (16:01))
I think that the restriction should still stay for the simple reason that you could end up with a very large number of Black Guardian Hosts and although they are the standing army, normal or reservist guardians stillneed to be used.

I think regular Guardians will still be used, heck, some don't use any Black Guardians at all as it stands!  Looking at the list, it just seems to be a relic from the previous versions.

Someone who uses all Black Guardians for their Hosts will have no Wraith-constructs, as well the BG cost more points.

It appears fairly balanced to me.
Author:  BlackLegion [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Are regular guardians still available for an Ulthw?-Army in WH40k? If not..then why inculde regular guardians in this list?
Author:  Chroma [ Thu Dec 15, 2005 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (BlackLegion @ 15 Dec. 2005 (20:15))
Are regular guardians still available for an Ulthw?-Army in WH40k? If not..then why inculde regular guardians in this list?

Both exist in the Ulthw? army, per the Codex: Craftworld Eldar and Eye of Terror info.
Author:  MC23 [ Fri Dec 16, 2005 1:34 am ]
Post subject:  Cleaning up Ulthw
Quote (Chroma @ 14 Dec. 2005 (09:15))

To me, the limitation almost feels like merely a relic of previous lists and doesn't really need to remain.

It needs to be there. Black Guardians are not numerous enough to be used in an exclusively in a large army. Getting just 1 out of 1 host in a tiny army or 2 out of 4 hosts in a larger one is already and incredible amount to field by the background. I will not allow them to be any more common than that because they are so rare.
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