Wraithsight only existed in one version of the Eldar codex (the fourth edition one). I wouldn't, therefore, say that this is something on which to characterise how Wraithguard are supposed to function. The old rule from SM2 about Warlocks and their effect on the orders system for Wraithguard seems like a better way of referencing the way in which Wraithguard perceive the world in terms of table top play to me .

Also, Wraithguard could be argued to be elite. The reason being is that the spirit stones used to animate them often contain the souls of fallen Eldar Aspect Warriors. You are certainly correct that Wraithguard don't fight in the same way as living Eldar elite, but they would have all the combat memories of a living Eldar, so I'd expect them to be powerful, but with relatively slow reactions.

In essence though, I think that what you're proposing regarding initiative seems, on the face of it, a sensible way forward to me. It is a sensible way of reflecting the slower reaction speed of Wraith units to the world around them sometimes catching them out.

_________________

Also posts != present. He was last on the site Sept 6th. I do agree that some communication would be good even if just to say, "I'm not dead yet!"

Also can we get a recap of what the current issues with the list and probably more in general, the faction itself? Stating that there's many problems doesn't move the conversation forward at all.

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

I think the issues with Iyanden is pretty clear. The Wraithguards is too good and the list doesn't really have a drawback to motivate that.
Doesn't really have a good picture of Eldar as a whole but GlynG made a summary some posts back here (and my issue is more about the many proposed changes to Biel Tan that never happens. It would be nice to know that the core list is stable. Not saying I want those changes to happen just want to know)

I like the 2+ Initiative suggestion.

Going back to earlier discussion, could I suggest that one way of solving the 'Wraithguard formations are too good in general' problem by changing the formation composition to a fixed mix of 3 Wraithguard and 3 Wraithblades?
I'd like to see the Wraithknight make an appearance, too.

_________________
Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

just away for a week, and what happened here

Just don't mix Epic UK with NetEA! an EpicUK list is balanced in comparison of other EpicUK army lists, which is different than NetEA. Usually they are "weaker" than NetEA (some guys call this "more balanced" )

So, with the Blood Angels list, we had the same problem:

-Needed a new AC (XM solved this problem, and took the crown)
-An unbalanced list -he's answer was something like this:
1, localize the problems
2, solve them 1 by 1, and playtest every little change.

And it worked.

So, first, i think we need to localize a the main problems:

-Wraithguard -to powerful. Yes ,as a stand alone unit, it's true. But we need to change the unit, or we need some balance through the drawbacks of the whole list? My opinion is:
1, We need to change the army around Wraithguard, stricten the living few rules -it's not easy, when you need to buy 350p units to have options. It will be a failure. So we need a NEW living few rule! (something like at least 1 wraithbone unit /1000points, or something)
2, Just lower their number: 300p for 4 units + Spiritseer (as it is now), with an option for +50 for 1 to 4 more. More flexible, more combinations, but more expensive. Worth a playtest?

Just to note for those interested, I am still watching this & the other Eldar threads.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

ok, nice to know but before we can do much developing here we really need to settle the Wraithguard issue. Also the "main" Eldar thread is proposing some changes that will affect this list but since everything is controlled by one person and he/she is away nothing happens.
Is this forum really so dependent on one person that everything is shut down while we wait for the AC?
And how long will we have to wait?

This is SGs answer to the "wraithguard problem" (tm) dated 13 august 2013
So according to the AC the +1 initiative is a 10 year old typo...
This is what makes me sad, the AC have clearly never played the list and it takes a year to fix a "typo" or up to 6 months to answer a question. But when some of the users points this out to the NetERC they do nothing! They even defend the AC and wants us to wait another month or two...
I have stopped playing this army because my friends think it is to powerful and was kind of hoping we could fix that issue but apparently not.

The Army Champions are in charge of making decisions, but those are based on data generated by the community. Some are very motivated and post up suggestions for testing. Others are more passive.

However, I've always felt it's putting the cart before the horse if people to wait for the AC to give them 'permission' to try something. Rather than give up on an army you enjoy, could you work out a solution with your gaming group and play test it? My group and I have done similar things with the Eldar Titan Clan list. Even if the suggestion doesn't end up being used by NetEA, it's useful to you and your friends for a houserule if you guys like how it works.

_________________
Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

So true, we could just house rule things but I do not want to do that. We have a community right here for these kind of things.

What would be useful is to show the rest of the community your thoughts and ideas as parts of battle reports this will at least mean that when the AC is active again we can progress with fresh information rather than back to the same old arguments.

_________________
_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Well, I have done reports but no one reads them. We have new arguments as the AC didn't know the Spiritseer gives the Wraithlord +1 initiative so there is already plenty of stuff for him/her to take in when he/she pleases to come back. About 10 pages in this thread alone, not to mention the other Eldar threads.

Not to derail this thread but just because there is not a glut of comments in the batrep does not mean it is not read by anyone. Many times it is digested and that's that. Trust me, they are beneficial so keep doing them

_________________
He's a lawyer and a super-villian. That's like having a shark with a bazooka!

-I HAVE NO POINT
-Penal Legion-Fan list
-Help me make Whitescars not suck!

For your information:

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list

I don't understand whats the hold up? Give the AC position to someone who actually plays the game and gives a damn about the lists.

_________________
https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam