No but there are Wraithguards and Vampires

Good point

That's right, one slot in the vampire, but can't be transported at all in ws and falcons... (epicuk)

Just to check - all lists are agreed that you can transport heavy weapon but not support weapon platforms right?

Btw-who do I go to to query epicuk lists ? The vampire has n/a against its cc and ff ??

Mephiston, Steve54, Tiny Tim and Kyussinchains for starters

And that prompted another closer look at the Warlock - which also seems to be missing "Inspiring" in V4.1

And the critical hit on the Avatar should include it's destruction, so should read something like "Destroyed. All Eldar units in LoS . . . "

This just feels weird.
What are the status of thy 4.0 list? Is the changes between Chromas list and this so big that it will loose the Approved status?
I always thought it was in the compendium/TP so I never bothered to print the list here just looked up some of the other Craftworld specific stuff. (as the beginning of this thread states that the only change between previous list and this is the 15 points drop for the Fire Prism..)

G'day

I have been following this thread for some time now and am happy to see much needed tweaks to the list. Maybe I have missed this part of the discussion but haven't noticed any debate on the Phantom and to a lesser extent the Scorpion.
I have been using both in games over the last 6 months against IG, Orks and Necrons.
It has been generally agreed between myself and opponents that the Phantom is not an optimal choice with 4 x TK Pulsar but becomes quiet dominate at 6 x TK Pulsars. We found those extra two shots significantly increased the chance of breaking larger armour/WE formations in a turn and potentially destroying in two. However at this stage probably wouldn't recommend any changes.

We have also found the scorpion to be pretty balanced although when it gets close enough to the enemy it's 3 x 2+ pulsars can really carve, especially if used in conjunction with a Phantom.

Just some food for thought though...

Mic

Thanks for the input.

- Phantom:- Have you tried running with a power-fist as well as a single 3x shot pulsar?

- Scorpion:- Have you tried with any of the other suggested stats (3x 3+MW, or 3x 4+MW) or extending the range to 75cm with 2x 2+MW (as per E-UK)

Hey Ginger

I forgot to mention several games against Tau also.
Anyway, the Phantom I have only ever chosen in list for its fire power and table control so haven't explored the power fist option. I guess if I was heading down that path it would be hard not to just take the Warlock Titan as that is where it excels especially seeing it with I inspiring.

Haven't explored the alternate stat lines for the scorpion, I will speak with my group and see which option most appeals. I am imagining EUK option or 3x 3+MW at 60cm. I personally like the scorpion at 60cm option as I feel that range balances well with the other war engines and even sword of vaul formations. However I will let more games tell the story.

Cheers

Mic

I feel the Epic-UK route of 75cm for the Scorpion would be a much more appropriate and sensible way to boost the unit.

3 x MW shots definitely looks OTT to me, it didn't need that much of a boost and having an odd number of shots doesn't fit the model. I've been thinking of running a Scorpion spam 3k list (including 10 Scorpions) to stress test them and report back.

If the Phatom Pulsar change to 3 shots is felt to be too powerful (I'd want more testing of the change first before making any conclusions) perhaps it could stay at 2 shots a Pulsar but be TK2+ rather than 3+. This would encourage it to move rather than sustained fire, which is more Eldar like.

I agree here that the 75cm range seems to work well. The point is that while 3x MW shots is just about ok for a singleton, it tends to get abusive when played as formations of two+ Scorpions. TBH, spamming Scorpions at 3K tends to be difficult because singletons take up slots needed for other formations while larger formations reduce the activation numbers. At 4k and 5k these constraints are both reduced significantly, so I would expect the abusive nature of 3x 2+MW to be much more noticeable.

Like you, I remain unconvinced that this change is absolutely necessary. While I understand the intention for the Phantom to be "shooty" leaving the Warlock as the "assault monster", 6x TK seems a little OTT. I also like the suggestion for TK2 as an alternative that would gear them more towards WE and titan killers rather than boosting them in general.

I am happy to try the Phantom pulsar at 2 x TK 2+ in a game this weekend. Can also try the Scorpion at 2 x MW 2+ 75cm, I'll feed back observations.

Mic

Alright after several rain checks finally the eldar hit the table against the Scarab Conflict Necrons. We trialled the pulsars at:
Phantom pulsar- 2 x MW 2+ (TK1) 75cm
Scorpion- 2 x MW 2+ 75cm

The Necrons were sporting the Aeonic Orb, 3 x monolith maniples, 3 x warrior phalanx, 1 x eques maniple, 1 x pylon and tomb complex.
The Eldar turned up with Shinning Spear Warhost with Autarch and Exarch, guardian Warhost in Waveserpents, guardian Warhost with 3 extra heavy weapons, 2 x swords of Vaul (3 falcon 2 firestorms), 2 x nights spinner troupes, 2 x ranger troupes, a scorpion and phantom with 2 pulsars.

A summary of the game regarding the phantom and scorpion:
The Crons dropped 1 lot of monoliths and the pylon in the eldar deployment on the far right on turn one. With the eldar winning first turn the necron threat was dealt with quickly. The phantom did a move fire and took out the Pylon with 3 hits and 2 getting through LA.
The increased range on the scorpion made it ideal for first turn over watch and it provided a good protective bubble against turn 2 cron deep strike shinnagians.

Turn 2, saw both other monolith Maniples set up either side of the eldar blitz. The eldar won first turn again and the swords of Vaul wiped one maniple out and the Phantom destroyed 2 vehicles and broke the remaining two from the final maniple. This gave the eldar dominance for the remainder of the turn. The scorpion doubled forward and smashed an already broken heavy destroyers.

The final turn of the game saw the eldar take the four mid field objectives and either break or destroy the remainder of the cron forces.

The eldar won 3-0

We both felt that the phantom pulsar was pretty good considering it's on a 750 point unit. It certainly doesn't dominate when compared to the three shot version. It was discussed that for point sink and for shots you really need to be hitting. Not that the phantom doubled and fired at all during the game but double fire and move is so very eldar and the phantom should still be able to put the hurt on at 2+ pulsar.

The Scorpion spent first turn on overwatch which was certainly more effective at 75cm and no fixed forward arcs. We both felt the range boost seemed balanced.


We will do some more game testing with some different opponents and feed back results.

Cheers

Mic