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Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=23256		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  pixelgeek [ Tue May 15, 2012 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Was looking through the Eldar Titan Clan list and was wondering why there were no SHTs in the list. Seems like a natural addition to the list.
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed May 16, 2012 12:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
It's a Titan Clan list, not an Eldar War Engine list. ATML don't have SHTs either, because adding other WEs detracts from the focus of the list. The ETC is a very specific force, a Titan task force with appropriate screening elements. There are actually no non-Walker AVs in the list either. A more generalist WE list quickly begins to look like Yme-Loc.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Wed May 16, 2012 4:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
It's a Titan Clan list, not an Eldar War Engine list.


How does asking about SHTs turn into "an Eldar War Engine list" question?

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
ATML don't have SHTs either...


Not sure how that is relevant.

Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Abecause adding other WEs detracts from the focus of the list.


How so?
Author:  madd0ct0r [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:13 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
I think spectar ghost is arguing that normally each faction get's a 'tank' list, where the baby tanks get to be core and the SHT's get to shine, and each faction gets a Titan list, composed of giant walking robots.

I'm not quite sure wether it's a neccesary devision, but it's one used in the imperial (ad-mech) and eldar (and chaos) lists.

not so for Necrons, Nids, Orks, Tau, IG, Dark Eldar ect, although of those, only Orks have access to both titans and SHTs
Author:  Spectrar Ghost [ Wed May 16, 2012 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
pixelgeek wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
It's a Titan Clan list, not an Eldar War Engine list.


How does asking about SHTs turn into "an Eldar War Engine list" question?


Because if you add SHTs you are effectively including all the Eldar War Engines? With the possible exception of the Void Spinner, of course.

pixelgeek wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
ATML don't have SHTs either...


Not sure how that is relevant.


An example. The ETC are very similar in structure to the ATML; they cpnsist solely of Titans. They do tend to have ties to the Craftworlds, and to the users of Eldar Knights (Exodites? A bit fuzzy on whether Eldar Knight Houses exist), but due to the issues of population that plague Eldar campaigns, they can't usually depend on much material support outside of whatever Outcasts are in the area.

pixelgeek wrote:
Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Abecause adding other WEs detracts from the focus of the list.


How so?


If you want a list centered around Eldar Titans, adding competitors to the same roles detracts from that focus. Pulse Laser Revenants have largely the same role as Scorpions. Cobras are far cheaper D-Cannon platforms than Phantoms, important in many activation-centric metas. A similar point can be made for Storm Serpents and Wraithgate Phantoms. When you add the potential for certain titan configs to be supplanted by SHTs, it is a clear example of compromising the focus of the list.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed May 16, 2012 10:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Agree that SHT's don't belong in this dojo.
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Thu May 17, 2012 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Since I'm the Titan AC I guess I should chime in.

SG worded as good if not better that I would have. The foucs of the list is Titan WE, adding a different type that cover similar roles would off set that. Currently the Titan clan has Titans, Mini Titans (Wraithlord), Basic Guardians, Knights, Ranger outcasts and Air Support geared towards Fighting then Transport. Seems about right for a Craftworld that only/mainly has Titans.
Author:  Moscovian [ Fri May 18, 2012 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
PG, it is just a matter of style. Obviously some people like yourself see it different - to be expected I suppose. When I put together an initial list years ago I didn't include any SHTs only because I had so many titan types that I felt there would be too many options. Also I believe Chroma at the time had some sort of SHT list for the Eldar as well, so we simply split up those specialties. I gave up development on the titan list awhile ago but those themes have obviously been retained.
Author:  austinitor [ Tue May 22, 2012 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Rather than adding SHTs to the Titan Clans, it would fit with the Yme-Loc description ("super heavy tanks and titans") to add perhaps a 0-1 Titan Warhost choice to Yme-Loc.
Author:  Angel_of_Caliban [ Tue May 22, 2012 10:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
austinitor wrote:
Rather than adding SHTs to the Titan Clans, it would fit with the Yme-Loc description ("super heavy tanks and titans") to add perhaps a 0-1 Titan Warhost choice to Yme-Loc.

Possible but I think the Main Yme-Loc list needs work before adding Titans as well as the Titan list needs some testing.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Wed May 23, 2012 2:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
I think I'll just work on my own fan list. :-)
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed May 23, 2012 4:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
pixelgeek wrote:
I think I'll just work on my own fan list. :-)

= the reason few lists ever get finished.
Author:  pixelgeek [ Wed May 23, 2012 4:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
Evil and Chaos wrote:
= the reason few lists ever get finished.


Not sure what you mean.
Author:  Simulated Knave [ Wed May 23, 2012 7:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
People don't like some aspect of a current list, so make their own. With limited numbers of people playing particular lists, many of them very similar, most of them get little or no testing.

I'm really not clear on why the one tank is so critical that you'd rather make a fanlist than play without it. Or just play the ETC and occasionally take it.
Author:  Kyrt [ Wed May 23, 2012 11:04 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Eldar Titan Clan and SHTs
It's pretty simple really:

Swordwind wrote:
The Void Spinner is a sinister, barely known Engine of Vaul, unique to Biel-Tan and a handful of other craftworlds which follow the ideal of warrior supremacy. To most Eldar the Void Spinner is an
abomination. To them it represents some of the most dangerous acts the Eldar capable of – the misuse of knowledge and power.


Biel Tan is the "warrior path" craftworld, i.e. warlike. A feature also exemplified by the Court of the Young King/Autarchy. So what is the nature of the Yme-Loc craftworld? Are they obsessed by using war to return the Eldar to former glory, or not? It really has nothing to do with the "class" of unit, which is a purely game-mechanic delineation. In the end the theme of the list is justified through the fluff, and in this case the existing fluff means it needs a compelling fluff reason regarding the entire nature of the craftworld to include it that so far seems missing.
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