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Quote: (Moscovian @ 06 Feb. 2009, 20:48 )

That seems beardy to me but I couldn't possibly tell you where in the rules it is forbidden. Ã‚Â In fact, 3.3.2 seems completely devoid of anything about using both. Ã‚Â Am I missing something?

Quote: (luc.taesch @ 06 Feb. 2009, 21:45 )

1/to choose between ff or cc, one should be B2B, right.?
ie 1 cannot b2b 3 unit and choose to go 6 cc , ? or is it?

I understood the rule as I can be b2b, but go ff, not the other way, right ?

ie , if I am 10 cm from any unit , can 1 use 6 cc roll ?

2/ also , maximum 6 enemy unit can be b2b, so the rest shoud go ff, right ?

thanks for the ( last minute) help guys.

Quote: (stompzilla @ 07 Feb. 2009, 00:11 )

In effect if you can engage a formation in Btb and a firefight then you can get a total of 4 TK attacks?

Author:	luc.taesch [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
How many time does the warlock strikes in CC /FF accoding to the following DERC profile ? is it 6 ( forDC) PLUS PL : +2 PLUS (fist) +3, ie 11 attacks ? all 3+ ? second, the PL says (15cm) +2/TK(D3). is this just when really non B2B, or can we apply the rule specific to WE, and decide that CC attck becomes FF , and choose PL? or the free allocation between CC and FF plays just for the 6 basics strike ( both 3+ any way ), and the specific rules apply for the PL/fist ? thanks (just preparing for a tourney tomorrow and first time playing eldar :-) --Type Speed Armour Close Combat Firefight War Engine 25cm 5+ 3+ 3+ Weapon Range Firepower Notes 1 x Psychic Lance 30cm 3PB Disrupt, Ignore Cover, Titan Killer (D3) and (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attacks (+2), Ignore Cover, Titan Killer (D3) 2 x Twin Eldar Missile 45cm AP4+ / AT5+ / AA5+ - and 0-1 titan Pulsar 75cm 2 x MW3+ Titan Killer (1) 0-1 Power Fists 30cm , 6 x AP4+ / AT4+ - and (15cm) Small Arms Extra Attacks(+3) or (base contact) Assault Weapon , Extra Attacks(+2), Macro-Weapon, Titan Killer (D3)

Author:	Mephiston [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:32 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
OK, CC - 6 base for Damage capacity, +2 extra from the power fist which are TK(D3) - all on 3+ to hit (8 dice) FF - 6 base for Damage capacity, +2 extra from the physic lance which are TK(D3), +3 extra from the power fist - all on 3+ ot hit (11 dice) It's an assault monster! I pretty sure you could chose which mode the extra attacks would use as WE's can both CC and FF in each round of combat assuming there are targets for both types of attacks. Probably best to check with the tournament organisor when you get there.

Author:	luc.taesch [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:44 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
monster indeed !. that s why we LOVE him ! to choose, should it be in B2B ( and pretend some goes FF), ? besides, when I read the PL profiles as written here under, it seems that there is no CCcapability , isn it? ( thanks for the very quick replies . this forum is fantastic !)

Author:	BlackLegion [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Only the attacks given from the WarEngines DC you can split between CC and FF as you see fit, but the EA for a givenweapon can only be usded for what its used for. eg you can't use the Psychic Lance EA for CC because it's a FF-weapon.

Author:	Moscovian [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:48 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
I see what your asking. Since War Engines can choose FF or CC, what would prevent a player from saying, for example, that 3 attacks would be FF and 3 would be CC. Then you could apply the FF extra attacks AND the CC extra attacks. That seems beardy to me but I couldn't possibly tell you where in the rules it is forbidden. In fact, 3.3.2 seems completely devoid of anything about using both. Am I missing something? 3.3.2 Close Combat and Firefight Attacks Instead of rolling a single hit dice for each war engine in an assault, roll a number of hit dice equal to the war engineÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s starting damage capacity. You may choose to split these between close combat rolls and firefight rolls as you see fit, but close combat rolls will only hit enemy units in base contact, while firefight rolls will only hit units within 15cm that are not in base contact.

Tactical Command http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

Warlock in CC/FF http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=14790	Page 1 of 2

Author:	BlackLegion [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:57 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Wellthe Eldar Power Fist says Power Fist blabblashootingattack OR (Fist Mounted Lasers) (15cm) Small Arms EA +3 OR (Fist Attack) (Baswe Contact) Assault Weapons EA+3 TKD6 So the "OR" say to me that it can use the Fist to shoot OR to FF OR to CC but not all three or even two within the same action. If you Engage, Hold or Double you could shoot. If you Assault you can use the CC-EA OR the FF-EA but not both. If you get assaulted (or support an assault) you have to shoose between CC-EA and FF-EA too.

Author:	zombocom [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 9:58 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Quote: (Moscovian @ 06 Feb. 2009, 20:48 ) That seems beardy to me but I couldn't possibly tell you where in the rules it is forbidden. Ã‚Â In fact, 3.3.2 seems completely devoid of anything about using both. Ã‚Â Am I missing something? It's a consequence of the war engine allocation change, and is perfectly allowable. It's the only thing that makes the Tormentor even worth considering! Of course, the FF and CC EA have to be on different weapons for it to be allowed. If they're on the same weapon with an OR, then only one can be used.

Author:	nealhunt [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:11 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
I'm not sure I'm following all the posts. The Warlock titan is complicated because it has multiple options. It would have: "Basic" DC attacks - 6. These can be split between CC or FF attacks in any way the player wants. Power fist - 2x CC TK(d3)or 3x FF. The weapon line says "OR" so you have to choose between the two packages. It can only function in one mode or the other for each shot. You cannot mix and match CC/FF as you can with the basic attacks, nor fire in both modes. Psychic Lance - 2x FF TK(d3). These are FF only. The WE rule means that they must be allocated to FF targets, not that they can be 'switched' to CC. If all the targets are in base contact, these would effectively be lost. A Warlock titan could have from 8 (pure CC, 6 "basic", +2 CC fist, lance shots lost) to 11 (6 "basic", fist in +3 FF mode, lance for +2 FF). Also, as a side note, the "OR" designation comes into play each time the weapon is fired. If an assault tied and went to a second round, that's comparable to a new firing action. The titan could choose an entirely new mix of CC/FF for the basic attacks and/or switch modes of fire for the fist if desired.

Author:	luc.taesch [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
ok seems clearer to me. now one more. 1/to choose between ff or cc, one should be B2B, right.? ie 1 cannot b2b 3 unit and choose to go 6 cc , ? or is it? I understood the rule as I can be b2b, but go ff, not the other way, right ? ie , if I am 10 cm from any unit , can 1 use 6 cc roll ? 2/ also , maximum 6 enemy unit can be b2b, so the rest shoud go ff, right ? thanks for the ( last minute) help guys.

Author:	Ginger [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Neal, just for clarity here, I think you are saying that like shooting, you consider each weapon in turn. You then apply the stats for that weapon at its designated range (shooting, FF or CC). The fact that the weapon has multiple attacks for a given range means just that; you cannot split the attacks of a single weapon between FF and CC targets. However, the Warlock has separate stats listed for the Power fist and the Psychic Lance. Assuming there are both FF and CC targets available, I would have thought you could have the basic '6' attacks, + the Psychic Lance (+2 extra FF), + Power Fist (+2 extra CC). Am I correct? (Note that all the chosen extra attacks are TK(D3) which is one of the reasons why this is such a beast in assault!)

Author:	Mephiston [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Yes, you have to be in base to base to use any CC. Once you are its your choice how to split your fire, but then you can only allocate hits to units that your can hit. So with 3 units in base contact you could allocate all the attacks as CC, but only those 3 units can be hit, any extra hits couldn't be allocated to units in FF range. The "or" in the weapon make sense to me now too.

Author:	nealhunt [ Fri Feb 06, 2009 11:33 pm ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Quote: (luc.taesch @ 06 Feb. 2009, 21:45 ) 1/to choose between ff or cc, one should be B2B, right.? ie 1 cannot b2b 3 unit and choose to go 6 cc , ? or is it? I understood the rule as I can be b2b, but go ff, not the other way, right ? ie , if I am 10 cm from any unit , can 1 use 6 cc roll ? 2/ also , maximum 6 enemy unit can be b2b, so the rest shoud go ff, right ? thanks for the ( last minute) help guys. Most of the time, you want to take your best guess at how many hits you're going to want in CC versus FF and assign your attacks accordingly. You can choose any number of CC attacks, regardless of how many units are in base contact. However, since those CC hits can only be allocated to units in base contact, choosing too many means that they may be doubled up. That can lose some firepower. So, from your example, you might want to choose 4 CC attacks, because at 3+ that would produce about 3 hits - one for each unit in base contact. Or you might want to go 5 CC attacks, to make sure you ended up with 3-4 hits. The other attacks could go to FF. This allows a certain amount of customization or limited "sniping" by WEs in assault by choosing extra attacks on CC or FF, whichever you want to kill. For example, if you entered base contact with 3 units that you REALLY wanted to kill, you could choose all CC attacks and every hit would be allocated to those units. You might "lose" some hits because you hit those 3 units more than necessary, but it would make sure those units were dead. The same can be done with FF. If, for example, an Ork player ran all his grots into base contact, the titan could choose all FF attacks and effectively bypass the grots and their "don't count as kills in assault" benefit. You could technically choose CC even if there were no units in base contact but it's like choosing to fire AP weapons at a Leman Russ company. You can roll and hit, but because there wouldn't be any legal targets for allocation you would lose the hits. === Ginger: Yep.

Author:	Flogus [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Related question : The FF attacks of a war engine can not be assigned to enemy units in B2B with it. But can these FF attacks can be assigned to enemy units, in B2B with friendly units in formation with the war engine ? Exemple : a company of 3 Baneblades. A swarm of Genestealers is all in B2B with every Baneblade. Can FF attacks of Baneblade#1 be assigned to enemy units in B2B with Baneblade#2 ou #3 ? (of course if there are LOS on the Genestealers)

Author:	stompzilla [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:11 am ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
So, just to get this straight and put things into a slightly easier to understand context: I have a warlock titan in an engagement with 4 stands of terminators for e.g. 2 of them are in BtB, 2 are in FF range. I can legally get away with the following: 2 x FF TK(D3) from the lance onto the terminators not in Btb, 2 x CC TK (D3) from the powerfist onto the 2 stands in Btb and then the basic attacks (Of which there are 6) can be split however i want - so in this case, 3 x CC and 3x FF seems the most sensible? In effect if you can engage a formation in Btb and a firefight then you can get a total of 4 TK attacks? That's frikkin sweet!

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Author:	Flogus [ Sat Feb 07, 2009 12:26 am ]
Post subject:	Warlock in CC/FF
Quote: (stompzilla @ 07 Feb. 2009, 00:11 ) In effect if you can engage a formation in Btb and a firefight then you can get a total of 4 TK attacks? Yes ! Remember : the Warlock is a monster !