I want to get back into epic and build some new armies after a few years of not wargaming. My first project is going to be a strongly themed and distinctive Eldar army. I want it to 'count as' a standard Biel-tan force, but none of the models will be the standard ones used and nearly everything in the army will be converted, often extensively. I’ll run a thread in the painting section once I eventually have some painted and prefer to go into the theme then.

It’s not aimed at necessarily being the most competitive of armies, that said losing all the time would be disheartening and I would like to take it to tournaments when it’s done. Since I’ll likely convert and paint most or all of the army before I game with it I wanted to create this thread to get some comments on it (my EpicA tactics/good army building is quite rusty and I’ve never played current edition epic with an Eldar army). Due to the theme and models I have for it I don’t want to change the army all that much, but I could tweak it here and there to improve it or fix particular issues/weaknesses.  

Avatar (it’s not a Biel-tan army and won’t literally have a Court of the Young King,  but I will use the extra attack bonus from it – the model I’m using here is the size of a large titan and justifies the combat ability)

Wraithgate – 50

Aspect Warhost – 375
8 Shining Spears
+ Autarch

Aspect Warhost – 300
8 Shining Spears

Aspect Host – 325
8 Swooping Hawks
+ Exarch

Guardian Warhost – 475 (BTS Formation)
1 Farseer
4 Guardians
3 Heavy Weapon Platforms
+ 3 Support Weapons
+ 2 Wraithguard
+ 3 Wraithlords

Guardian Warhost – 250
1 Farseer
7 Guardians
+ 2 Wraithguard

Ranger Troupe – 100
4 Rangers

Swords of Vaul – 310
4 Fire Prisms
1 Fire Storm

Swords of Vaul – 310
4 Fire Prisms
1 Fire Storm

Engines of Vaul – 250
1 Scorpion

Engines of Vaul – 250
1 Cobra

Total: 2995pts
Activations: 11 (including the avatar)

Nb. My 'theme' prevents me from taking Jetbikes, Vipers, Wave Serpents, Storm Serpents, aircraft, spacecraft or Phantom Titans. It does let me take Falcons, but not in a manner where they transport troops. Also the Shining Spears and grav-tanks of my army aren't big on flying and have to act as though they don't have the skimmer ability.

I used the list from the 2008 Handbook – is this the best/most current to use? What list tends to be in (UK) tournaments?

Is that enough anti-aircraft capability or should I add in more? (ground based only, don’t want to use aircraft in the army)

Is 11 activations enough for an army like this?

Non Standard Base Sizes - the infantry will all be 25mm round bases and the following will be on larger than normal bases:
Avatar - 60mm round bases
Shining Spears, Swooping Hawks, Farseer, Wraithlords - 40mm round bases
Will round bases and larger sized ones affect game play much?

Thanks in advance for any comments / suggestions!

Glyn

UK tournaments use the book rules plus GW errata - so for eldar no spirit stones and pulse is replaced by 2 shots

The swords of vaul formations weren;t included in the errata so they  couldn't be used in the UK tournaments.

10/11 activations is fine

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The Titan couldn't be a *really* large Megasaur with the Power Fist as a massive bite?  *laugh*  (This is just a wild guess as to your "theme".)

First off, basing: the Avatar on a 60mm+ base might be seen by some as "cheating" as it does give you a bit more reach than the usual 40mm or less bases commonly used.  The 40mm round bases for various infantry fall within the normal base parameters, but might also produce some oddities, being so large, you can really stretch out a formation... can you reduce them to 30mm rounds?  As to Wraithguard, as Armoured Vehicles they aren't normally based, putting them on a 40mm base will also be a bit odd as one targets the model when it's being fired on, but uses the base when determining if it's in close combat or not; if the model is as big as the base, nor problem, but a "normal" Wraithlord on such a base would be a potential problem.  Round bases on their own are not a problem.

Now to the list.

The "Swords of Vaul" formation didn't make it into the Epic Update 2008 that is the "official" GW Epic update, so you're back to Falcon Troupes (Five for 250, change up to two to Firestorms) and Fire Prism Troupes (Three for 250, no upgrades).  The NetEA project allows for the Swords of Vaul Troupes, but some tournaments might not let you use that.  Addtionally, Fire Prisms are extremely nasty AA units in the "official" rules, but have that ability removed in the NetEA Project.

A single Cobra isn't that great... if you can make a formation of two, they are more than twice as good, as 6BP is a "sweet spot" for barrage weapons and you might also be able to tag multiple enemy war engines at once with the multiple templates.

Other than that, the list looks sweet.

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Cheers for the feedback!The Titan couldn't be a *really* large Megasaur with the Power Fist as a massive bite?  *laugh*  (This is just a wild guess as to your "theme".)

There are a couple of exodite lists floating around if you're interested.  I know you want to take it to tourneys but a few models here or there might allow you to field it with non-craftworld lists.

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Neal

As long as the bases aren't too over the top I think it could be covered in the pre game discussion with an agreement to measure center to center instead of base to base. Then its matter of common sense when it comes to engagements.

I’d prefer to stick to the normal style of measuring, but I’m going for smaller bases than I’d originally said above where I can, which should help. It’s not like I’m going for bigger bases for sneaky tactical advantages, just where the models I’m using are bigger enough that they need them and I doubt people will have be a problem.

There are a couple of exodite lists floating around if you're interested.  I know you want to take it to tourneys but a few models here or there might allow you to field it with non-craftworld lists.

Fair enough.  I'm all in favor of counts-as lists.  If I ever get it finished, I have a Blood Axe army of looted IG vehicles that I'm planning to field using the IG army list.

That's the only Exodite list I kept a copy of, but there was at least one other attempt.  But if you don't want to worry about it, it really doesn't matter.


For "counts as" I'd take a stab at...

Riders - Warp Spiders.  Good armor, slow speed, but Infiltrate charge to make them faster in assault.  In my experience, once Spiders get close to the enemy 30cm assault move is plenty to continue being a threat.  The First Strike is a bit hard to rationalize, but otherwise, it's pretty close.

Tera-riders - Shining Spears.

Princes - Exarchs

Exodites - Guardians

Megasaurs - War Walker.  LV for the same reasons as Squiggoths in the Ferals, decent move, decent firepower for the platform.

All of that would have the advantage of being able to use wraithgates.


Carnosaur - I really don't know on this one.  To be honest, I can't quite recall the mini.

I might also try to convert a Warmaster Stegadon from the Lizardman army to be a Storm Serpent - Wraithgate and weapons on the Howdah.  The speed is a bit problematic, but it would still be fun and with the infantry/walker focus it should be very effective as well.

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Neal

I’m going a similar but different route to that. I’ve got it all worked out in my head (though I’m adding to it / altering it over time) and am now in the process of cleaning up some models and trying to buy others. So much of my components being rare, components of large expensive kits, or OOP doesn’t make it easy, while I'm currently debating whether it's worth spending silly money to the tune of £50 with GW MO for the bits for one unit of Swooping Hawks and one superheavy, or if I should hold out in the hope of WM Lizardmen coming up on ebay or to trade/buy off people.

Various troops in the army have the skimmer ability but will never make use the benefits it's rules gives (with the possible exception of letting them move through – in rules terms over - woods/ruins without penalty, on the basis they’re very agile and used to moving through dense jungle).

My main troops - the Dragon Knights – will count as Shining Spears.

My 'Sky Knights' on Terradons will be Swooping Hawks rather than Shining Spears.

And I am going in that direction with the super-heavies, though for Cobras and Scorpions instead.

My opponents may wonder if the dino’s are on speed or something with how fast they move, but hey. Rationalising it a bit, the Eldar have been on these world for many millennia and I believe the background mentions them genetically engineering the life there, maybe they bred/engineered them for great speed.

edited to add a link to where you find a photo of a Carnosaur - see here.

Nice work indeed!  A very ambitious project but one that i think will look mega cool once you're done.  If i could comment on the list:

Avatar (it’s not a Biel-tan army and won’t literally have a Court of the Young King,  but I will use the extra attack bonus from it – the model I’m using here is the size of a large titan and justifies the combat ability)

Wraithgate – 50

Aspect Warhost – 375
8 Shining Spears
+ Autarch

For 25 pts you really can't be without an exarch both for an extra attack and the inspiring which is invaluable.

Aspect Warhost – 300
8 Shining Spears

Same again - I'd defo be slapping 2 x Exarchs in here.  You always want to take as many exarchs as you can TBH.

Aspect Host – 325
8 Swooping Hawks
+ Exarch

Thirded

Guardian Warhost – 475 (BTS Formation)
1 Farseer
4 Guardians
3 Heavy Weapon Platforms
+ 3 Support Weapons
+ 2 Wraithguard
+ 3 Wraithlords

This fm actually costs 525 pts

Guardian Warhost – 250
1 Farseer
7 Guardians
+ 2 Wraithguard

Ahhhh, this is where the lists diverge.  If you're looking to go to tourneys i'd strongly reccomend using the official rules - these don't allow you to pick up stands of WG like this.  It's 3 or nothing.

Ranger Troupe – 100
4 Rangers

Ok choice, cheap activation and a garrison but i think you'll almost certainly end up dropping these to make up the pts you need to above.

Swords of Vaul – 310
4 Fire Prisms
1 Fire Storm

Swords of Vaul – 310
4 Fire Prisms
1 Fire Storm

Again, these aren't in the official list.  However the Falcon Troupe (I usually use 2x firestorms) is a superb fm and 60 pts cheaper.

Engines of Vaul – 250
1 Scorpion

Engines of Vaul – 250
1 Cobra

For me, the Eldar superheavies of choice are the void spinner and the storm serpent.  I just really don't rate scorpions or cobras.  2 x MW attacks at 60 cm = who cares for 250 pts IMO.  The VS gives you range, is excellent for surpressing troublesome fms, counterbattery fire and simply superb for tearing up broken fms that you need dead.  The SS gives you tactical options and allows you to feint and set up some superb crossfires.  The scorpion and the Cobra are just meh in comparison IMO.  Each to their own though.

Hope that was useful to you.

A better idea, definitely.

edited to add a link to where you find a photo of a Carnosaur - see here.

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Neal

Drop the single cobra; exchange it with a scorpion or other SH of yr choice.

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Thanks.  I really can't think of anything in the Eldar list that would be a good "counts as" sub for that.

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Okay, I don't have much to add armylist-wise but I just wanted to say that the carnosaur rider is one insanely awesome looking model.

That will be all.

Nice.

Would you consider putting a "counts as" Exodite list together as an Appendix to the army list, Chroma?

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