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Random idea
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=13312		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  semajnollissor [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
What if Wraithlords were LVs instead of AVs, but with a better save*?
[edit: and perhaps for a bit a a discount]

As LVs they couldn't provide cover for infantry stands, which always seemed suspect to me. They'd also be vulnerable to AP fire, but that isn't necessarily out of line.

It would provide an opportunity to make the rules for wraithgates simpler, so they could only allow infantry and LVs through.

*like:
3+ RA
or 2+ and invulnerable
or 4+ RA and invulnerable


I know this is necessary, and I know the change really can't be implemented, but I was wondering if anyone could see any major downsides to it.
Author:  Chroma [ Fri Aug 15, 2008 5:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (semajnollissor @ 15 Aug. 2008, 16:51 )

I know this is necessary, and I know the change really can't be implemented, but I was wondering if anyone could see any major downsides to it.

Even less reason to take Wraithlords?

Honestly, other than in Iyanden armies, I've rarely seen Wraithlords in play... one of their biggest draws is that they can "screen" infantry units.
Author:  Moscovian [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Why the desire to simplify the Wraithgates?  Do you think they are overpowered by allowing AVs with the walker ability?

I can tell you the LV status would just crush that unit though.  There is only one reason to mark something as a light vehicle and that is if it is one.  Infantry would be better than LV status although I am fine with them as they are.
Author:  Mephiston [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 9:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
I've rarely seen them in play either so making them LV would make them even rarer.

A staple in the Iyanden army which should make a guardian formation really tough, but I'm not sure many people would want a guardian formation that would have to be in the front line as their BTS.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Sun Aug 17, 2008 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Well, my thinking was that they really shouldn't be able to grant cover to infantry. Also, unlike SM dreadnoughts, Wraithlords should be somewhat susceptible to AP fire. I realize there are huge downsides to making them LVs, but I just feel like they'd be better represented as LVs.

As for whether they're rare now, and would be more rare after a change, I think that would depend on if they stayed at the same point cost and depending on what their new armor save was. As LVs, they'd be able to absorb AP fire that would otherwise hit the rest of the formation (which they'd be able to absorb with an awesome armor save). Aside from that, the only difference would be that 6 infantry stands wouldn't be able to get cover modifiers. And apparently, since everyone thinks they're so rare, that isn't enough reason to use them.
Author:  demigamer [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 3:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (semajnollissor @ 17 Aug. 2008, 23:08 )

Well, my thinking was that they really shouldn't be able to grant cover to infantry. Also, unlike SM dreadnoughts, Wraithlords should be somewhat susceptible to AP fire. I realize there are huge downsides to making them LVs, but I just feel like they'd be better represented as LVs.

As for whether they're rare now, and would be more rare after a change, I think that would depend on if they stayed at the same point cost and depending on what their new armor save was. As LVs, they'd be able to absorb AP fire that would otherwise hit the rest of the formation (which they'd be able to absorb with an awesome armor save). Aside from that, the only difference would be that 6 infantry stands wouldn't be able to get cover modifiers. And apparently, since everyone thinks they're so rare, that isn't enough reason to use them.

Goes against the 40k stats and fluff. only strength 5 or greater can touch Wraithlords. They eat Dreadnoughts for breakfast!
Author:  lord_bruno [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
I think that the Wraithlords are ok, but the fact that they provide cover is a bit odd, maybe the problem is that AV with the walker rule shouldn´t provide cover for infantry (Dreadnoughts, Necron Spiders...).
Author:  semajnollissor [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (demigamer @ 28 Aug. 2008, 09:51 )

Goes against the 40k stats and fluff. only strength 5 or greater can touch Wraithlords. They eat Dreadnoughts for breakfast!

I know, thats why I think AP weapons should affect them. Nearly all of the AP weapons in Epic are the same weapons in 40k that can affect wraithlords. Heavy bolters, sniper rifles, pulse rifles, reaper launchers, etc. Weaker weapons are generally classified as small arms. How many strength <5 weapons in 40k are described as AP weapons in E:A? I can't think of any off the top of my head, but they're certainly in the minority.

To make up for the weakness of being an LV the armor would be improved. At 3+ RA, they'd still be more resiliant than dreads, even though they'd be liable to AP fire.
Author:  semajnollissor [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 6:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (Rug @ 28 Aug. 2008, 11:30 )

LVs include truks and speeder etc.... 1 shot with a heavy weapon in 40k and they're dead; how many weapons in 40k can kill a Wraith Lord in 1 shot?

Ok, I'll accept this argument.
Author:  scarik [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (Rug | Posted on 28 Aug. 2008 @ 17:30)

LVs include truks and speeder etc.... 1 shot with a heavy weapon in 40k and they're dead; how many weapons in 40k can kill a Wraith Lord in 1 shot?


Exactly zero weapons can oneshot a Wraithlord in 40k.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (scarik @ 28 Aug. 2008, 19:36 )

Quote: (Rug | Posted on 28 Aug. 2008 @ 17:30)

LVs include truks and speeder etc.... 1 shot with a heavy weapon in 40k and they're dead; how many weapons in 40k can kill a Wraith Lord in 1 shot?


Exactly zero weapons can oneshot a Wraithlord in 40k.

Turbolaser Destructor, Plasma Blastgun, Vortex Grenade, Deathstrike Missile, Volcano Cannon, Plasma Destructor...

...  :p
Author:  semajnollissor [ Thu Aug 28, 2008 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Random idea
Quote: (scarik @ 28 Aug. 2008, 13:36 )

Exactly zero weapons can oneshot a Wraithlord in 40k.

Technically, a heavy bolter has the ability to kill a wraithlord with a single burst of fire, it's just excedingly unlikely. Assault cannons, scatter lasers, shuriken cannons, and multilasers probably could, too.

I realize that, in those cases, it isn't one shot killing the wraithlord, but you you aren't going to fire just 2 shots from a HB in a single round of shooting in 40k.
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