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Designng Iyanden

 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:47 am 
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Spirit Seer
Type: Character
Weapon: Singing Spear (15cm) small arms Macro-Weapon, Extra Attack (+1)
Notes: Invulnerable Save, Farsight

This will make the Spirit Seer like a ranged focused Farseer but without Commander

The Living Few
Iyanden suffers with a depleted population which has driven them in times of need raising spirit warriors to fight in their absence. As a result, Iyanden Armies may not have more individual Eldar Guardian warhosts, Aspect Warrior troupes, Ranger troupes, or Windrider troupes than they have Spirit warhosts.



0-1 WRAITHGATE: 50 points
0-1 AVATAR: free
0-1 Wraith Seer: +100 points (upgrades Spirit Seer to having Supreme Commander and counts as Farseer)

ELDAR SPIRIT WARHOST: 325 points
An Spirit Warhost consists of 6 Wraithguard units and one Spirit Seer. In addition the formation may include:
3 Wraithlords for +175 points
Alternatively, the formation may be mounted in six Wave Serpents for +300 points. If this option is taken then the formation is
not allowed to take any other upgrades
Note: Wraithguard are being reviewed. Please use the latest playtest revision of WraithGuard with this list


ELDAR GUARDIAN WARHOST: 150 points
LIMITED: You may not have more Guardian Warhosts than Spirit Warhosts.
An Eldar Warhost consists of one Farseer unit and seven Guardian units. Up to three Guardians may be replaced with Heavy
Weapon Platforms at no additional cost in points. In addition the formation may include:
3 Support Weapon Platforms for +50 points
Alternatively, the formation may be mounted in four Wave Serpents for +200 points. If this option is taken then the formation is
not allowed to take any other upgrades

TROUPES: cost varies
The army may include up to three troupes chosen from the following list may be taken for each Spirit or Guardian
Warhost included in the army.
Wraithlord Troupe: 6 Wraithlords for +350 points
Aspect Warrior Troupe: Four aspect warrior units for 150 points chosen from the following
list: Dire Avengers, Striking Scorpions, Howling Banshees, Fire Dragons, Warp Spiders, Dark Reapers, Swooping Hawks,
Shining Spears. All units apart from Swooping Hawks and Shining Spears may be transported in Wave Serpents an/or Falcons
if desired. If you choose to take this option then you must take exactly enough transport vehicles to carry the units that require
transport, without any spare transport spaces being ?left over?. Each Wave Serpent taken costs +50 points, and each Falcon
taken costs +65 points. In addition the may include up to 1 Exarch character upgrades for +25 points each.
Ranger Troupe: From four to eight Eldar Rangers for +25 points each.
War Walker Troupe: Six Eldar War Walkers for 200 points
Windrider Troupe: Six Jetbikes for 200 points. Any number of Jetbikes may be replaced with Vypers at no additional cost.
Falcon Troupe: Five Eldar Falcons for 250 points. Up to two Falcons may be replaced with Firestorms at no additional cost.
Fire Prism Troupe: Three Eldar Fire Prisms for 250 points.
Night Spinner Troupe: Three Eldar Night Spinners for 175 points.
Engine of Vaul Troupe: Up to three Scorpion, Cobra, or Storm Serpent (or any combination) for 250 points each

ELDAR SPACECRAFT, WAR ENGINES & AIRCRAFT: cost varies
Up to a third of the armies points may be spent on Spacecraft, War Engines and Aircraft.
0-1 Eldar Spacecraft: One Wraithship for 150 points, or one Dragonship for 300 points
0-1 Warlock Titan: One Warlock Titan for 850 points
Phantom Titan: One Phantom Titan for 750 points each
Revenant Titans: Two Revenant Titans for 650 points
Night Wings: Three Nightwing fighters for 300 points
Phoenix Bombers: Three Phoenix Bombers for 400 points
Vampire: One Vampire for 200 points

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 3:48 am 
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Just wanted to get this back up in some form for now.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:20 pm 
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Seems a nice list in terms of structure.

In terms of balance.

I would be worried about the cost of the spirit warhost, frankly the wraithguard and wraithlord upgrades were undercosted in the Biel-Tan list and having the option for a large formation of fearless RA infantry with MW's with the ability to gain cover from fearless RA armoured vehicles for 550pts as a core choice is too cheap, especially when you factor in storm serpents and wraithgates.

Also

Revenants should be 700pts
Falcons should be 275pts
Jetbikes should be 225pts
Phoenix Bombers should be 375pts

O, and drop the spirit stones rule.

Apart from that the list is fine :D

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2005 11:33 pm 
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Quote (yme-loc @ 02 2005 Aug.,07:20)
Seems a nice list in terms of structure.

In terms of balance.

I would be worried about the cost of the spirit warhost, frankly the wraithguard and wraithlord upgrades were undercosted in the Biel-Tan list and having the option for a large formation of fearless RA infantry with MW's with the ability to gain cover from fearless RA armoured vehicles for 550pts as a core choice is too cheap, especially when you factor in storm serpents and wraithgates.

This isn't the final list and the point cost of Iyanden's unique formations is one of the critical things that will be gone over again and again before this list is ever submitted to the EPIC Rules Committee. As you can see I haven't even submitted the first draft yet because I want pre-emptive playtesting ?on this (and I do mean use it in games). If you want to try it but at a higher point cost go ahead but please tell me the results of the game and what modifications you used if any.




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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 11:04 am 
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OK, the list has interested me so I am going to try them out in a game tommorow, but just a quick question.

Can spirit seers (and wraith seers) be transported in vampire's.

I cant really see why they cant be but by the strict letter of the law they arn't on the list of units a vampire can transport.

If I dont hear back I will play as though they cant and as such spirit hosts cant be transported by vampires.

I am also going to play the list with the wraithlords as a 200pt upgrade to the spirit host.

Will post details of the game tommorow evening or on monday.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:04 pm 
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Quote (yme-loc @ 06 2005 Aug.,11:04)
Can spirit seers (and wraith seers) be transported in vampire's.

Since they are character upgrades to a unit and not standalone stands, if they unit they are added to can be transported, so can they.

So, if Wraithguard can be transported by a unit, their accompanying Seers can as well.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 2:10 pm 
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Quote (Chroma @ 06 2005 Aug.,09:04)
Since they are character upgrades to a unit and not standalone stands, if they unit they are added to can be transported, so can they.

So, if Wraithguard can be transported by a unit, their accompanying Seers can as well.

That is correct.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2005 4:05 pm 
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Quote (Chroma @ 06 2005 Aug.,14:04)
Quote (yme-loc @ 06 2005 Aug.,11:04)
Can spirit seers (and wraith seers) be transported in vampire's.

Since they are character upgrades to a unit and not standalone stands, if they unit they are added to can be transported, so can they.

So, if Wraithguard can be transported by a unit, their accompanying Seers can as well.

Doh, didnt spot that they were characters and not a seperate unit like farseers.

So all my wraithguard units with a warlock in them from epic40k days finally have a use :D.

In regards to this point the upgrades given by adding a single warlock (basically what a spirit seer is) to a unit seems a little high considering the farseer stats are for a farseer and 4 warlocks (just a consistency thing, no big deal).

So spirit hosts in vampires are a go, interesting!





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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 7:27 pm 
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Quote (yme-loc @ 06 2005 Aug.,11:05)
In regards to this point the upgrades given by adding a single warlock (basically what a spirit seer is) to a unit seems a little high considering the farseer stats are for a farseer and 4 warlocks (just a consistency thing, no big deal).

Well, the upgrade represents a handful of Spirit Seers scattered in the formation. I didn't want to create a new unit which will cause some problems when it mechanically works best as a single Character upgrade. I suppose a background explaining such might be useful for me to add.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:24 pm 
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This is just 'off the cuff' from reading the list....

Considering Iyanden's dependance on 'Spirit' formations, you may want to reduce the Troupes to two per Warhost and see how that works.

As it stands right now I could easily field a 2,700 point GT with only 1xSpirit Host, and 1xGuardian Host, and that doesn't 'feel' right.

Nice otherwise.....

Jaldon :oo

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 4:00 pm 
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I think relying on heavy machinery (i..e armor and artillery in Troupe selections) is also in keeping with the low manpower of Iyanden. ?Even if the Spirit Hosts are featured prominently in the background material, I think that's a reasonable option.

Besides, if you want to max out troupes, Ulthwe, with its 5SR will still be the best option.




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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2005 10:02 pm 
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BATTLE REPORT

Tournament game scenario using a 6ft by 4ft table and following the guidelines for terrain.

I will be playing Iyanden against a regular opponents Guard, I was not completely aware of which army I would face when choosing my list (although I was sure it would be either steel legion or ork horde). My opponent new I would be using Iyanden although he hadn't had a chance to see the structure of the army list and so wasn't totally sure what to expect.

Battle Report (Steel Legion vs Iyanden)

Forces: 2700 Pts Steel Legion Imperial Guard

Steel Legion Tank Company, Pts = 650
Steel Legion Tank Company, Pts = 650
Steel Legion Regimental HQ, Pts = 500
Two Warhound Titans, Pts = 500
Hydra Flak Battery, Pts = 150
Hydra Flak Battery, Pts = 150
Sentinel Squadron, Pts = 100

rolled 7 commisars (1 for each formation)

Forces: 2700 Pts Iyanden Eldar

Spirit Host (with Wraith seer) + Wraithlord upgrade, Pts = 650
Spirit Host, Pts = 350
Wraithlord Troupe, Pts = 350
Nightwing Interceptors, Pts = 300
Vampire Raider, Pts = 200
Wraithgate, Pts = 50
Avatar, Pts = Free
Guardian Host, Pts = 150
Engine of Vaul Troupe (1 Scorpion), Pts = 250
Aspect Troupe (4 Swooping hawks), Pts = 150
Aspect Troupe (4 Swooping hawks), Pts = 150
Ranger Troupe, Pts = 100

DEPLOYMENT

Flank orientation is determined from the eldar perspective, so left and right in this case refers to the eldar left and right flank even when refering to guard formations.

I apologise now for the lack of a map, I hope it isnt too confusing (but unfortunately suspect it will be).

Eldar deployed wraithlords, scorpion and guardians on their right flank, scouts garrisoned in the middle and about 30cm forward into some woods. Most eldar forces were held off board to enter by the wraithgate or flyers, or ready to teleport. The wraithgate is on the eldars right flank about 45cm in.

Guard Deployed in the centre stretching out to the left flank. Leman Russ Tanks and Warhounds towards the centre and infantry on the flank with one flak battery intermingled in the tanks and another covering the infantry. The sentinels garrisoned about 50cm in from the centre in some ruins.

TURN 1.

Eldar win the strategy roll and choose to go second.

Little occurs as both forces make positional moves.

Most of the guard forces (Infantry company, 2 Hydra batteries, Tank Company and Warhounds) sweep forward on the left flank ?moving into the eldar half of the board. Fire from the warhounds and a hydra battery breaks the eldar ranger troupe. ?The other tank company however holds the centre ground having moved onto a hill giving it a good field of fire, while staying far enough back to be in a good position to protect the blitz objective (although fatally as it happens it is out of the flak umbrella), they also manage to destroy 2 wraithlords from the main spirit troupe that had moved through the wraithgate. Sentinels move quickly out to the left flank away from the eldar forces.

The eldar move forward on their right flank (although the wraithlords fail to activate and only shuffle forward 15cm), Guardians and the scorpion move quickly up to the centre taking cover behind some woods. Main Spirit troupe moves out of the wraithgate (to get the supreme commander onto the board), although again like the wraithlords they fail their initiative test and can only move 15cm (to make matters worse as already mentioned fire from the central leman russ's destroy 2 wraithlords).

The nightwings attack the central russ's in revenge and destroy one.

Rangers fail to rally, main spirit troupe does rally and loses 3 blast markers. The cental russ's fail to rally even with a re-roll and remain with two blast markers.

TURN 1 LOSSES
ELDAR: 1 Ranger unit, 2 Wraithlords.
GUARD: 1 Leman Russ Tank.

TURN 2.

Both swooping hawk troupes teleport in (both in the guard table half, one on the left and one on the right flank), eldar win the strategy roll and go first.

Nightwings activate and destroy another of the central russ's leaving them with 4 blast markers. Eldar retain and the vampire flies in and unloades a spirit host in fire fight range of the central russ's. This results in a brutal and one way fire fight resulting in a single point of damage to the vampire on the eldar side and the loss of 4 russ's to the guard. The eldar win the assault and destroy all the leman russ tanks (giving the eldar the break their spirit objective).

(I was looking pretty smug at this point russ's are usually a nightmare and to wipe out a company in one assault was impressive stuff from the spirit troupe.)

The spirit troupe consolidated towards the warhounds and the vampire flew off (taking a flak hit on the way, which it saved). Things went a little down hill for the eldar from here though as the warhounds moved forward and destroyed the remaining wraithlord and 3 wraithguard from the main spirit troupe (containing the wraithseer), breaking it. Then retained and using the russ's on the flank sustain fired into the spirit host that had just wiped out the tank company in the centre, destroying 4 wraithguard units and breaking them as well (they fell back onto the blitz objective in the guard table half).

Next the wraithlords moved forward and shot up the warhounds knocking the shields off one and causing a point of damage, before a retain saw the scorpion deliver a killing blow to the unshielded warhound, breaking the remaining warhound which pulled back behind a hill on the far left flank.

The guard infantry moved forward sweeping round towards the bllitz objective in the eldar board half and fired on the wraithlords with their autocannons, despite needing 6's to hit they destroy 2 wraithlords, a retain see's a hydra battery destroy another wraithlord breaking this formation as well, which falls back behind a hill.

The swooping hawk troupe on the left flank assaults the sentinels and wipes them out, using their hit and run move to move behind a wood . The other swooping hawk troupe moves towards some central ruins ready to pounce next turn.

The final flak battery moves up to support the infantry and finishes off the broken ranger troupe.

The wraithlords, main spirit troupe (with the wraithseer) and the other spirit troupe all rally and are left with no blast markers. The warhound fails to rally.

TURN 2 LOSSES
ELDAR: 3 Ranger units, 4 Wraithlords, 7 Wraithguard units.
GUARD: 9 Leman Russ Tanks, 1 Warhound Titan, 4 Sentinels.

Nasty stuff on both sides, a slight advantage to the eldar at this point though especially with the warhound failling to rally.

TURN 3.

Eldar win the strategy roll and go first.

The scorpion activates and destroys the central hydra battery. A retain see's the nightwings fly in and destroy another russ from the remaining company, the nightwings take some flak fire from the remianing hydra battery as they leave the board but none are destroyed.

The guard infantry doubles forward and spreads out to contest two objectives in the eldar table half (including the blitz objective and wraithgate) at the same time shooting at the remains of the main spirit troupe killing another unit of wraithguard. A retain see's the last hydra battery move forward to cover the final objective in the eldar board half and shoot the same spirit host destrying the wraithseer and the last remaining wraithguard (giving the guard the break their spirit objective).

The 3 remaining wraithlords moved over the hill they had been hiding behind and out to dispute the wraithgate objective from the guard infantry at the same time shooting and destroying a chimera.

The leman russ tanks marched back towards the blitz objective in the guard table half and disputed it from the remains of the last spirit troupe.

A swooping hawk troupe moved forward to dispute the objective held by the hydra troupe.

With the guard running out of activations the remaining swooping hawk troupe marched to dispute the blitz objective in the eldar table half. The guardians in the guard table half holding an objective went onto overwatch and finally the vampire flew in and attacked the russ's but did no damage.
The 2 remaining wraithguard in the spirit troupe fired on the russ's destroying another.

The guard infantry rallied and lost 2 blast markers, the russ's also rallied and were left with 1 blast markers, the warhound titan again failed to rally. No eldar formation needed to rally.

TURN 3 LOSSES
ELDAR: 3 Wraithguard units (including the wraithseer).
GUARD: 2 Leman Russ Tanks, 1 Chimera, 3 Hydra's.

VICTORY CONDITIONS (TURN 3)

ELDAR: 1 (Break their spirit)
GUARD: 1 (Break their spirit)

pretty much every objective is disputed at this point, although the guard are suffering because of a lack of activations, still with their impresive infantry company and a pretty much full strength tank company its still all to play for as we go to a 4th turn.

TURN 4

Eldar win the strategy roll and go first.

The scorpion moves forward, shooting at and destroying a single russ, a retain see's the nightwings scream in again and target this remaing tank company, getting very lucky they knock out three russ's, this breaks the russ's, who fall back towards the left flank and into cover behind some woods.

The hydra flak battery activates and manages to destroy the remaing three wraithlords that had been disputing the wraithgate from the guard infantry. A retain sees the guard infantry sustain fire into and destroy the swooping hawk troupe that was contesting the blitz objective.

Unfortunately again a lack of guard activations at this point proves decisive.

The vampire flies in and destroyes another of the broken russ's leaving 3 russ cowering behind some tree's.

The final swooping hawk troupe activates and spreads out using their scout skill to dispute the blitz and another objective in the eldar table half.

The guardians and remaining 2 wraithguard stay were they are holding objectives in the guard table half.

The 3 remaining russ's and the warhound rally.

TURN 4 LOSSES
ELDAR: 3 Wraithlord units, 4 Swooping hawk units.
GUARD: 5 Leman Russ Tanks.

VICTORY CONDITIONS (TURN 4)

ELDAR: 3 (Break their spirit, Take and Hold, Blitz)
GUARD: 1 (Break their spirit)

TOTAL LOSSES
ELDAR: 9 Wraithlords, 10 Wraithguard (including the wraith seer), 4 Swooping hawks, 4 Rangers.
GUARD: 17 Leman Russ Tanks, 1 Warhound Titan, 1 Chimera, 3 Hydra's, 4 Sentinels.

ELDAR STAR FORMATIONS

The initial strike by the spirit troupe that destroyed a whole russ company while taking no losses.

The nightwings that accounted for 6 russ's

ELDAR DUD FORMATIONS

Most other formations did well, pretty much doing their job, only the main spirit host did very badly, from failing its first activation and then never really recovering from the inital attack by the warhounds.

CONCLUSIONS

Well its pretty hard to draw alot of conclusions from one game, especially considering how bad I was at making reinforced armour saves.

I would say that what I took most from the game is that the spirit hosts are almost certainly correctly pointed when they arn't mobile. But when you stick them in vampires (and I suspect storm serpents) they act like super powerful and survivable dire avengers with MW's.

It might actually be an idea to up the cost of vampires in this army list.

I also found the swooping hawk troupes to be extremely useful to the list, able to teleport in late in the game and then wizz around disputing objectives (2 at a time). This effect was probably agravated by the activation supremecy I achieved late in the game. This is the first of the varient lists I have tried and I am surprised the aspect troupe isnt 175pts just in terms of its flexibility.

So all in all and from first impressions an interesting list that isnt really overpowered (at least when you dont mount all the spirit hosts in vampires, more testing needed here).





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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 1:13 am 
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Quote (Jaldon @ 07 2005 Aug.,15:24)
Considering Iyanden's dependance on 'Spirit' formations, you may want to reduce the Troupes to two per Warhost and see how that works.

As it stands right now I could easily field a 2,700 point GT with only 1xSpirit Host, and 1xGuardian Host, and that doesn't 'feel' right.

I forgot about the addition about limiting some formation choices by the number of Spirit hosts taken. I added that in with The Living Few composition rule. I"ve gone back and added that in red to the original proposed list. That title and wording can be improved upon.

Relying on Troupes that uses little Eldar-power is fine but infantry type formations would be far more limited.




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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2005 2:31 pm 
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I actually quite like that title.

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 Post subject: Designng Iyanden
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:42 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ Aug. 09 2005,09:31)
I actually quite like that title.

Well, I did try to give the title that flourish they like to do with special rules.

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