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Dark Eldar Tactics
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=11937		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  tarrisvaal [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:55 am ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Firstly to say that I've only just started my Dark Eldar force and I'm yet to actually play with them... and a hello to the boards in general.  :)

What I wanted to ask was - given how the list has evolved so far - what tactics does the list seem to encourage, and what has been seen to work best with the Dark Eldar?

A look at the list suggests strong use of cover and hit and run tactics (especially given the units are either numerous but modest anti tank, or numerous and extremely short ranged anti infantry)

However the units are generally very small and fragile formations, prone to breaking or suppression - which suggests mutual support is needed to make best effect of them - small units aren't likely to make much of a dent after all, especially after damage has started coming in.

Given the lack of the ability to retain initiative to the extent of the Craftworld eldar, has anyone suggestions of how best to get around this problem?

There are plenty of commanders available to aid in assaults (thanks to the numerous Dracons) but these are expensive upgrades, and i was wondering what other suggested tactics have come in from others experience with them?
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Taarsival,

Check out the thread below in my sig for the Raiders project.  I posted a link and mentioned your models.  Hope you don't mind.  And glad to see you posting.

One thing I've noticed that DOESN'T WORK is keeping your troops loaded on the Raiders.  Because they are LVs the formation stands a better chance if you offload them at every stop.  This makes them more prone to template weapons but in general it will spread the damage around more.  Tactically it works out just fine because your infantry can firefight or shoot when loaded or unloaded so you have tremendous flexibility built into your attacks.  On a double you can load up, move, shoot with the infantry and Raiders, then move again and unload.

To be honest they haven't won all that much thus the most recent changes which inlcuded an upping of firepower, strengthening of armor, and a reduction in point costs (see list of changes at the bottom of the pdf).  I'll try to post more later.  In the mean time hopefully Charad will give some advice.
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
I don't have a Dark Eldar army, but welcome aboard, Tarris. I wonder if we're distant cousins. Check out my profile to see what I mean.
Author:  tarrisvaal [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Scarily the name that was first suggested for me to have was actually the same as yours!

Trying to decide if its worth sacrificing Anti Aircraft capability to take 2 Tormentor titans in 3000pts.

The lack of AA is extremely worrying (especially as my last epic game i think i must have faced the entire ork luffwaffa) but the sheer power of 2 Tormentors is a potent threat and very tempting.

What has been the experience/thoughts of people using Tormentors so far? (Or just the observations of them from the rules?)
Author:  Dwarf Supreme [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics

(tarrisvaal @ Nov. 13 2007,12:05)
QUOTE
Scarily the name that was first suggested for me to have was actually the same as yours!

Now that would have been too weird, to meet someone with the same name as mine.  :p
Author:  TheLimey [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
From comments I've seen and from the look of them, they are like a lot of the list, hard hitting but fragile. They cannot stand toe to toe with other titans.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
I can tell you Tormentors die beautifully.  :)  Having two of them would be interesting because I think one of them would get to the front lines to do some damage.  Otherwise having no AA is certainly a difficult aspect to the list.

The most successfuly games usually include an Executor.  While I am glad people want to field it I'm worried that the unit would become obligatory.  That's why I've been trying lists specifically without one.  Don;t be afraid to character upgrade, even if it is just a sybarite.  Removing a BM is very helpful as the game wears on.  

Talos and Perditors are very good at holding objectives.  March them on their first turn to get them into the middle of the board, preferably on a road to get that extra 5cm per move (keep this in mind for their placement).  My guess is the Perditor's new indirect fire will make it more useful and therefore difficult to ignore.
Author:  TheLimey [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Can I add something here that is slightly off topic, but which really excites me about the DE? The sheer variety. Everybody has a different take on these units and how they look. it is a lot of fun looking at versions of the same concept, and seeing how we have come up with our own interpretations.
Author:  tarrisvaal [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Agreed, although with the Perditors and even the Tormentors to some extent you can expect a lot of variety (being playthings of the haemonculi and all :) )

Even taking BFG as an example it seems a massive variety for what is nominally the same thing is quite fluffy.

Speaking of BFG... I noticed you can take three Corsairs as spaceship support. Has anyone tried this yet? Has it worked out or been largely a waste of the points (it is quite steep for a one shot wonder)
Author:  TheLimey [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
To be honest, I don't know how many players use Spacecraft at all, for any army, unless they need the planet fall capability.

Mind you, I now have 3 myself and the Torture class cruiser.
Author:  tarrisvaal [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Well this is the list I'm considering for try out tomorrow -

2 Tormentor Titans

1 Coterie with Archon

Syndicate 1
Syndicate 2 with Dracon

Flotilla with Vessel of pain

Vessel of pain (independent)

Talos + Slavebringer

I wanted to try out a few ideas, namely -

I want to see how effective Tormentors are in pairs. They seem like they could use the support of another to hammer their attacks home (in effect a pair of big Revenants)

The Slavebringer is my only AA, but it seems surprisingly good at it (3 AA weapons and one is turreted). Once its dropped off the Talos I want to see what its capable of for Air supremacy.

The VOP in the Flotilla is mainly there because i feel the flotilla desperately needs to be boosted in size and survivability. Im intrigued to know how Shadowfields would work in a mixed formation (where you have eligible AT targets with and without them) though.

Lastly, the list as a whole is not lacking in options for taking commanders. Although they eat a lot of points, the list looks like it will favour coordinated assaults more than hitting opponents piecemeal. The Dracon is there to make sure Ive got a chance to get at least one concentrated assault.

To be honest, looking at how the army works in the 40k codex the coordinated assualt tactic seems to work quite well - Arrange your forces carefully until you can leap on something and utterly annihilate it with excessive force and then run.

Still, I'll find out tomorrow. Any thoughts in the meantime?
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
I fielded two corsairs in one of my first DE games ever. ?See this thread. ?It ended up working out quite well since I was able to get pin points and OBs plus drop the Executor.

Keep in mind this was over a year ago and it was v1.1 of the DE. ?Many things have improved on the list such as the shields and armament of the Executor. ?The fact that it can free planetfall means that spacecraft that are brought will have their maximum flexibility. ?VoPs have improved, Perditor has improved, and points have dropped.

Like many games, spacecraft won't come into play much unless they are larger point values (4000-5000). ?This allows for a wider variety of selections and also means your opponent is more likely to be bunched up ergo more susceptible to OB fire.
Author:  tarrisvaal [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Definitely due for another try in that case.

Something I wanted to clarify in the main list - and Im aware this probably sounds like a stupid question - but I'm assuming that in most cases you can only take one of each upgrade? The Talos entry seems to suggest this, the Character one says it outright but only in relation to itself, but the barge of pleasure suggests otherwise.
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
8 activations is going to be 'interesting' for the DE.  Let's hope your opponent decides to go with a few activation list too.  Be very careful with that Slavebringer dropping the Talos off.  My last game I took three hits to my fully loaded Slavebringer (6 Wyches and 2 Warp Beasts) and the thing failed both armor saves after the shield fell off.  The game was less than an hour of play after that.  Of course if you can land them on your opponents line they will certainly take a pounding and distract him while you close with the other formations.  

Try to take many pictures for us.  Thanks!
Author:  Moscovian [ Tue Nov 13, 2007 11:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Dark Eldar Tactics
Restrictions on upgrades vary (save for the characters which are one per formation).  The infantry have a general limiter of 8 infantry per formation, but you can also include a Ravager.  The Raiders can be swapped out for a BoP (if you pay for it) too.
Talos formations have an upgrade of Talos and Perditor, but the Talos upgrade only allows 2 max additional and the Perditor is only one per formation. NOTE I just noticed that this could be clearer - I'll work on it for 1.4.2 okay?

The largest most hideous formation you can field is a Haemonculi formation with 2 upgrades (3 Haem, 5 Grotesques), 2 BoPs, 2 Talos, 1 Perditor, and a character.  Including damage capacity it is 18 units strong, mostly fearless, and has 4 shadowfields.  It also costs 975 points. :)
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