Tactical Command
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[Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=10897		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:37 am ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
Okay, there's a discussion on the possibility/mechanics of an enemy "blocking", or hindering, a Wraithgate in the other Eldar forum, and I wanted to move the discussion over to here.

Now, regardless of the actual game mechanism, do you think the enemy should be able to block, hinder, or not affect the use of the Wraithgate?

Please vote and discuss your choice!
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:07 am ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I do think you should be able to hinder not block. In essence the Eldar should always be allowed to assault out.

Now if there is no physical space to do so the question becomes
-allow the Eldar to firefight from within the gate (with supporting and FF attacks measured to any point of the gate).
-allow surrounding units to be 'pushed back' enough to fit the eldar in and fight a normal assault.

Personally I am fine with either - a hail of fire cutting down the unwary or a pulse of energy pushing the enemy back enough for the pointy ears to tumble out.
Author:  Edgar-San [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 9:31 am ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I agree with TRC, I think they should be able to assault out. Although if they lose the assault they should be wiped out. It would be weird if broken units could run back into the webway, rally and come back next turn.

I think it would be unfair if a quick formation could speed on to the gate and block it at the start of the game.
Author:  Pulsar [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I've got no problem with wraithgates being blocked, i have always played it that way and it makes them fairer on your apponent and with Eldar if you want a Wraithgate which is more flexiable you can take a Storm Serpent!
Author:  Irondeath [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
The middle road for me.

Making them unblockable discourages tactics, allowing for a total cut-off favours horde armies or popcorn formations and some gamey approaches.

(Note to self: Must get some shock troops for my gate)
Author:  nealhunt [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:20 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
Let the enemy block it completely if they want to and are able to divert the resources to do so.  Coming out of a wraithgate is a narrow, restrictive passage with great attendant vulnerability.

I'm reminded of the guy in a San Antonio (I think - someplace in Texas) trailer park that used a revolver to kill or wound 7 SWAT officers with 6 shots (one shot went through a shoulder and hit the guy behind) because he caught them right after they burst through a door into a hallway.

You don't charge through a constricted space when the enemy know you're coming.  You don't charge across an open area in the face of automatic fire.  It's virtual suicide to charge through a constricted space in the face of automatic fire.

If the Eldar don't have enough mobile elements to pick apart a formation that decides to set up camp like that, then that's their fault.  Let their units be trapped.  Next time pick a better strategy.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:22 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I voted to allow full blocking, for similar reasons to Neal.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 7:27 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
That is a fairly convincing argument :)
Author:  Edgar-San [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
Aye, can't really argue with that
Author:  semajnollissor [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I'm wondering what would constitute "blocking" the portal. Would an enemies ZoC be enough to block the portal?
Its seems to me that the only way I'd be happy to say the portal is blocked is if enemy units are so close to the portal that no eldar units can fit between the portal and the enemy.

Of course, there's also the problem that not all portals are the same size/shape. Sure, there's the crappy looking one they sell, but some of us have made our own, on 60mm titan bases.

How about:

The webway portal is considered blocked (and therefore, may not be used by a formation in reserven to enter play) if no eldar unit can exit the portal without having to move over an enemy unit. Treat the center of the portal (or some point on the portal model agreed to by both players) as where the movement of the eldar unit begins. Eldar units may move in any direction from this point.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 10:43 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?

(semajnollissor @ Nov. 05 2007,21:27)
QUOTE
I'm wondering what would constitute "blocking" the portal. Would an enemies ZoC be enough to block the portal?

Thanks for the comments!

The "mechanism" of blockage (Not enough fibre in the Eldar diet!) is something I'd like to discuss a little later.  Right now I'm just trying to gauge the opinion as to whether people think it should be allowed or not.

I will be clarifying that movement from the Wraithgate is measured from the "centre" of the Gate model.
Author:  Ginger [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:00 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
I think the gate should be blockable, but only by a reasonably large number of enemy units. Hence the suggestion that 7 enemy units (or equivalent in DC) can block the gate entirely. However, if there are 6 or less enemy, the Eldar player bring may a unit out of the gate to engage the enemy formation for each unit under 7 - which should mean that .

Note, this could mean that even Storm Serpents could be rendered inoperable if surrounded by 7 scouts.
Author:  Chroma [ Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:35 pm ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?

(Ginger @ Nov. 05 2007,22:00)
QUOTE
I think the gate should be blockable, but only by a reasonably large number of enemy units. Hence the suggestion that 7 enemy units (or equivalent in DC) can block the gate entirely. However, if there are 6 or less enemy, the Eldar player bring may a unit out of the gate to engage the enemy formation for each unit under 7 - which should mean that .

Note, this could mean that even Storm Serpents could be rendered inoperable if surrounded by 7 scouts.

Hey Ginger!

First off, how did you come up with "7 enemy units" as being the "magic number"?  It's an interesting approach and I'd like to know your thoughts behind it.

Second, this "blocking" would only apply to Wraithgates used to replace objectives, not mobile ones such as carried by a Storm Serpent; the ZoC of a Storm Serpent means that there will always be enough space around it to place units coming out of the Gate it carries... well, except in some bizarre, and unlikely, horde of broken, fearless units surrounding it... *laugh*
Author:  Kagetora [ Tue Nov 06, 2007 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?

(nealhunt @ Nov. 05 2007,14:20)
QUOTE
Let the enemy block it completely if they want to and are able to divert the resources to do so. ?Coming out of a wraithgate is a narrow, restrictive passage with great attendant vulnerability.

I'm reminded of the guy in a San Antonio (I think - someplace in Texas) trailer park that used a revolver to kill or wound 7 SWAT officers with 6 shots (one shot went through a shoulder and hit the guy behind) because he caught them right after they burst through a door into a hallway.

You don't charge through a constricted space when the enemy know you're coming. ?You don't charge across an open area in the face of automatic fire. ?It's virtual suicide to charge through a constricted space in the face of automatic fire.

If the Eldar don't have enough mobile elements to pick apart a formation that decides to set up camp like that, then that's their fault. ?Let their units be trapped. ?Next time pick a better strategy.

I couldn't agree more, and I am a dyed-in-the-wool Eldar fanatic.

If I'm dumb enough to allow my Gate to be completely blocked and therefore have units I can't bring into play, well, the third word of this sentence sums it up nicely.

That said, I do think it should be possible to Engage from the gate if your opponent leaves you enough room for your formation.  If you can physically fit the models in place, then you should be good to go for an Assault.  That prevents people from simply running over there with a few Scout units and trying to block it with simple ZoC's.  You should have to physically stop-up the drain, as it were.  Which shouldn't be too hard to do...4 Infantry stands could do it easily enough.

I remember a lot of discussion about this in the past, such as giving Webway Portals their own ZoC to prevent total blockage, etc., but I think that they should just be simple Objectives, blockable by a clever enemy.
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