@zombocom
You're confusing background and game stats here. And if you'd argue that way then Tau Firewarriors 5+ would also be very hard to justify.
My arguments are the following:
- their armour is not really different from "light" aspects
- they are more numerous (see the argument why Dark Reapers have only 5+)
- they have Warlock protection with Psychic powers

Eldar mesh armour is always destribed as light and flexible but that doesn't say much about it's protective abilities. Were dealing with a super-advanced fictional race here after all.

@matthemuppet
It's a bit difficult with Epic to find the "most recent" list. There are so many variants flying around that it's probably better to look for one that you and your gaming group are comfortable with. I'm looking for one right now and if I have to change the existing ones then that's fine as well.
What's the list you're referring to? Swordswind plus some errata? Where can it be found?

You can get away with the Guardians not being loaded if your doing the first activation for a triple assault right? Because then you could double and that allows you to embark and disembark in one go. Still some good arguments against Serpents and some good for Vampires and Storm Serpents.
I'm uncomfortable with the idea of having a good portion of the army off-table just for area denial so Wraithgate deployment is only good if you take Storm Serpents IMO. It doesn't matter whether they come by Wraithgate or Storm Serpent right? It counts as the same? Because you have to declare your deployment method beforehand.

@AxelFenderson
You're right. Guess I'm starting to get confused by all the different version flying around. Seems like I got it from the 2008 Epic Handbook. Have to cross-check it with the current NetEA comendium list.

You're right that there isn't much in the fluff about the actual efficiency of Eldar armour. But then there isn't much fluff about Eldar efficiency at all. That just means that the game stats have a considerable degree of freedom.

@SpectrarGhost
That's nice and all but the outcome of tournament depends on tons of factors. The relative strength/balance of the lists being only one of them. Others are the specific pairings, the tables, player mistakes and plain luck. A single tournament doesn't tell that much, does it?

@Chroma
You're of course right with the Warlocks. As you said the save in Epic is more than just your armour. It's also numbers, toughness and possibly other effects. (Why not consider the superior Eldar reflexes? Ducking in time might be all you need to survive after all.)
Not sure if it is a "mere" 50pts. After all it means that getting access to troupes becomes more expensive after all. The Guardians of the formation are a bit more than 100pts give or take. So +50pts is about a +50% increase for 1/3 chance of survival in the open and no chance in cover most of the time.

I don't think Invulnerable Save adds that much survivabily. It's only a 6+ save after all. I want to try it for fluff reasons and see what it does. After all statistically it only means that 1 out of 6 tanks that should have died survives.

@Malakai
Their effectiveness in cover doesn't change one bit with 5+ armour. Their efficiency even goes down! (They cost more and survive the same. Except against Ignore Cover weapons of course.) Their niche is a bit reduced that's true but they are still very different from Aspects. For one they are still 100pts cheaper base (for Biel-Tan). Then they don't specialise as much as the Aspects. They have 2+ ini instead of 1+. They have very different upgrades. Their closest Aspect counterpart the Dire Avengers has double their attacks, better CC and better Ini. That's still quite different.

And please don't forget the lists that don't have Aspect Warhosts. (Which are the majority after all.)

Nah he wasn't unfair. No statistical significance in a single tourney, as he says.

However, that was simply the first tourney I was able to find results for. I feel sure that any others would bear the conclusion out, as Rug says.

_________________
SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

I know, I've written one of those lists.

My point was that if you increased their armor the points value should be adjusted. So your argument that they are much cheaper than Aspects won't hold up. If their points went up I would take Dire Avenger Hosts over Guardian Hosts every time.

_________________
-Malakai

"You'll never understand how much watching other people's pain gets me off, hearing their screams and knowing that I have the power of a god." -Velvet Acid Christ

Again, Eldar don't need these boosts. Used correctly they are already one of the best forces out there.

You've got a really good point here, and one that I find problematic at times as well.

The best thing to do, I feel, rule-wise, is simply get the rules from GW's site, as this was updated in 2009 with FAQs and rewordings done by the NetEpic community.

Re: army lists, the best place to go, I feel, is the EpiComms EA Rules Amendments forum. This has conglomerated rules and stats for the different races into one document, with stats and sublists all together.

Otherwise, you can often find newer sublists in the EA Force Lists forum, although many of these are experimental or just silly, and are proposed for playtesting. This is also the forum to follow for rules developments and changes that may affect your chosen race. The NetEpic Rules Committee ("NetERC") updates the All-in-One documents with changes that have been deemed official in these army forums from time to time, but that still means the Rules Amendments forum is the best place to keep updated.

Not a strong argument in my view. Remember, the only Aspect which has a 5+ save in the original 40K rules were Swooping Hawks, and since third edition of 40K, no Eldar Aspect has had a save worse than 4+.

Mesh armour is also very different from all Aspect armour types, as reading any in depth Eldar background information will highlight.



Their armour offers markedly less protection than Dark Reapers, whose armour is described as being one of the most durable of the Aspect armours, so I don't see any parallels here.



Should that really confer a 5+ save though? I have my doubts. Conceal isn't that effective relative to cover in 40K any more, and was only a moderately useful bonus in the first place. Guardians should not have the same same save as Dark Reapers in Epic, regardless of any psychic boost offered by Warlocks in my view.



The current Eldar 40K codex describes Aspect armour as being superior in terms of its defensive capabilities to mesh armour, and I'm pretty sure that mesh armour is described as being weaker in older 40K background material (although I don't have it with me to double check), so I think there is little evidence to support this assertion.

In other words, I feel that you are basically wish listing here, rather than presenting any compelling evidence that this change is either necessary or justified. going back to your original question, therefore, I am afraid that I don't think we can all agree that this change is supported by the background.

_________________