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[Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
The precense of enemy units should be able to block/render gate unusable 43%  43%  [ 26 ]
The precense of enemy units should be able to hinder/limit use, but not fully block 43%  43%  [ 26 ]
The precense of enemy units should have no effect on use 13%  13%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 60

[Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
Justiniel
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:37 am 
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Basically the same happens to whatever poor bugger is trapped in a surrounded Rhino too, I see no problem with blocking though it has to be close otherwise you get an assualt into hand to hand. The other consideration could be with Titan size gates, could a Titan 'barge' out?

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zombocom
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 11:52 am 
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We always play that objectives are always measured from the centre of the marker, isn't the wraithgate done the same way? Having it able to have variable size seems abusable.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:11 pm 
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(zombocom @ Feb. 07 2008,10:52)
QUOTE
We always play that objectives are always measured from the centre of the marker

The rules don't say you have to measure from the center of the marker.  Many people play it based on the same method as measuring range to a combat model - nearest edge of the model (base doesn't count).

There are rough guidelines for objective sizes - models produced by SG, commentary from Jervis long ago that they should be something on the order of 40x40mm with reasonable flexibility (like infantry basing) .  That should prevent most abuses of objectives, regardless of measuring edge or center.

I'd call foul if someone showed up with a Wraithgate that was significantly outside those same kinds of specs.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:17 pm 
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How about a Tomb Complex that was 100cm x 100cm?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 4:23 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Feb. 07 2008,15:17)
QUOTE
How about a Tomb Complex that was 100cm x 100cm?

I believe the Tomb Complex rules specifically cover it:

"The Tomb is considered a Necron Portal, and can be used to bring formations from off board into place, or to relay troops to and from other Portals. ?Measure from the edge of the board as the formation?s starting point."

Of course, I'd recommend adding something about measure from the centre of the side touching the board edge.

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clausewitz
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2008 8:28 pm 
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I don't have an answer to the wraithgate question, but I do have a thought that perhaps should be considered.

IF the wraithgate is not blockable, the Eldar can assault out, then some kind of rule/convention should prepare for the presense of supporting formations defending the wraithgate.

Example: some tactical marines have "surrounded" the wraithgate, with a warhound titan and some landspeeders nearby.  If an Eldar formation decides to assault out of the gate then the speeders and/or warhound might be in FF support range, depending on where the Eldar units are placed when they come out.  

FF support is one of the main areas of the game where exact placement of units really matters.
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clausewitz
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 2:16 am 
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Hena, I used the inverted commas around surrounded as the exact mechanism was being discussed.

So by "surrounded" I meant "blocked".  But as this discussion involved "should the gate be blockable at all?" I meant that should a "blocked" gate be assaulted from the webway, some idea of how to deal with nearby support fire would be useful.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 1:06 pm 
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Hello old friend.  :grin:

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Honda
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 4:23 pm 
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I voted for blockable. Keep it simple.

If you allow formations to assault out of the gate, then you also have to allow for the possibility that someone could have a formation on OW within range of the gate.

Then what?

Does the OW go into effect before the assault? Now what, you have to come up with another answer to a question.

Are you going to allow people to shoot at formations in the gate? Why not?

See, it isn't that you can't explain or justify any scenario, it's that if you don't solve the problem to the point where there are no follow on questions, then you've just delayed resolution. Don't solve problems that just cause others to ask more questions.

Also, I'd recommend using the zone of control as the determiner of whether or not the gate is blocked and leave out "number of units is...". It's an interesting concept, but fiddly. What happens if the magic number is 7 and one formation has 6, but another intermingled formation has one unit within range?

Also it prevents discussions like, "Well I think if I turn my Shadowsword sideways, it is big enough to block a gate. Have you ever seen a Shadowsword? They're huge, the size of a building"...game goes directly to the toilet, the "Fun" muse runs screaming from the immediate area.

So make the solution binary (Yes it is blocked/No it is not blocked).

And yes, I have to deal with Eldar on a fairly regular basis.

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Ares
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 7:54 pm 
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Set a maximum size for a WG objective and allow them to be blocked by ZOC. Keep it simple.

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Tim_the_titan
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2009 10:17 pm 
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or maybe give the gate a DC  value in regards to being blocked ?  so if it does adhere to the transport rule then base size doesnt matter as its all just worked around the 2:1  DC value ?


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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Mon Nov 30, 2009 9:03 pm 
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DC would imply the ability to take damage which might get confusing.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Wraithgates] Should they be blockable or not?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2009 5:01 pm 
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The current rules cover this - entering ZoC requires assault, physical presence prevents movement.  Why complicate it?


The only problems I see are...

1) Some numbnut builds a giant gate.
2) The "objectives are points" crowd, which would allow a single unit to physically block the gate by being on top of that point.

Neither is anything that can't be solved in the 5 minute warmup and/or by browbeating an opponent for being a bad sport.

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