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Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
Tactica
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 4:01 am 
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tneva,

I really like the fist option on paper, but didn't know how often it would be used. Sounds like you make good use of it.

Good to hear.

I'm going to have 1 phantom for long support, and one with power fist. I think I like both and see uses for both.

Thanks for your input.

cheers,

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:50 pm 
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I think it's pretty much...

Fire Support - Revenants better
Assault - Phantom/Warlock better

I probably wouldn't consider taking a 2 Pulsar combo on the Phantom unless I knew for a fact I was going to face lots of big WEs.

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Johnny Rico
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:04 pm 
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Hi guys,  posting late on this one as I have not visited the boards for a while.  I have an Ulthwe Army and usually play 3,000 points.  I have used the Warlock several times and find that it is usually a magnet for enemy shooting.  At long range it is not very effective but if you can get close up it is worth taking in my opinion.  Also, it goes without saying that while the Warlock is soaking up the hits your other units can get on with the job in hand.  If I were planning to get in close range I would take the Warlock.
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Tactica
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:51 pm 
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Quote (nealhunt @ 13 Mar. 2006 (08:50))
I think it's pretty much...

Fire Support - Revenants better
Assault - Phantom/Warlock better

I probably wouldn't consider taking a 2 Pulsar combo on the Phantom unless I knew for a fact I was going to face lots of big WEs.

NH,

This is a very handy summation.

cheers,

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 8:50 pm 
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Warlocks are a bit overpriced, but they are wicked if you are playing the short way across the table.  Those things will outright destroy anything in an assault.  :evil:

Put them on the long way, however, and they are worthless.  It's like 850 points of wraithbone taking up space.

I enjoy my phantom titan a lot more than the Revenants.  The reinforced armor comes in handy, especially with the way I roll.  TK is great against RA targets too.

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N0-1_H3r3
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:31 pm 
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I tend to use Phantoms (2x Pulsar)/Revenants interchangably - Revs work better as a fast outflanking unit, helping to set up crossfires with slower or more fragile formations, while the Phantom works very well as a floating reserve - it's reasonable speed and long range makes it able to provide it's firepower to almost any engagement on the board.

Further, the Phantom's a lot tougher - between the higher DC, reinforced armour, less painful Critical, and not having the Revenant's reputation to deal with, it often tends to last longer, unless the enemy is packing anti-titan specialists.

I haven't fielded a Warlock since the autumn before E:A was released, so I can't really comment on the current version...
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:42 pm 
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Quote (N0-1_H3r3 @ 31 Mar. 2006 (21:31))
I tend to use Phantoms (2x Pulsar)/Revenants interchangably

The difference between the Phantom and Warlock is, of course, not as great as it used to be back in the SM/TL days when there were psychic rules.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 10:46 pm 
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Or maybe even Epic 40k when they could use 'Psychic blast' fate cards  :;):

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Suvarov454
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:53 pm 
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For the sake of the argument, let's say that the Psychic Lance, with it's +2 TKd3 small arms is equivalent to a Powerfist (+3 small arms/+2 cc TKd3). ?Doesn't Inspiring, Commander, Farsight deserve an extra 100 points on a titan chassis? ?True, to get the most value out of the Warlock, you've got to engage in FF or at least close support, but many people suggest that the two-pulsar Phantom is difficult to get full value from as well, so both titans share a similar role. ?I daresay that a Warlock with both a Psychic Lance and a Powerfist is better at it.

Also remember, with the experimental MW BP rule, the psychic lance deals 4+ ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 to everything under the template. ?Because of rule 3.2.1 concerning templates and war engines, the psychic lance (when centered on a WE) deals multiple 4+, ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 attacks.

I freely admit, I haven't actually used one in a 2700 or 3000 point battle (please see my sig:/) so I can't tell if it constitutes too high a concentration of points in battle that size, but I plan on making the Warlock one of the "must have" units in my Eldar force.

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tneva82
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:03 pm 
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Quote (Suvarov454 @ 02 April 2006 (15:53))
Also remember, with the experimental MW BP rule, the psychic lance deals 4+ ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 to everything under the template.  Because of rule 3.2.1 concerning templates and war engines, the psychic lance (when centered on a WE) deals multiple 4+, ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 attacks.

Which is another reason NOT to use that part of experimental rule...Not to mention cobra which will be just broken if you use that darn MW=inf column rule.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Sun Apr 02, 2006 10:16 pm 
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Quote (tneva82 @ 02 April 2006 (19:03))
Quote (Suvarov454 @ 02 April 2006 (15:53))
Also remember, with the experimental MW BP rule, the psychic lance deals 4+ ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 to everything under the template. ?Because of rule 3.2.1 concerning templates and war engines, the psychic lance (when centered on a WE) deals multiple 4+, ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 attacks.

Which is another reason NOT to use that part of experimental rule...Not to mention cobra which will be just broken if you use that darn MW=inf column rule.

I'm in agreement with you here tneva. The experimental MW rule is unbalanced IMO.

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Suvarov454
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:11 am 
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Quote (tneva82 @ 02 April 2006 (20:03))
Which is another reason NOT to use that part of experimental rule... not to mention cobra which will be just broken if you use that darn MW=inf column rule.

Ah. ?I thought that the prevailing opinion was in favor of it. ?My Orks and Warlock will be saddened. ?Is there a similar difference of opinion about the 4+/5+ 3 pt barrage? ?A 5+ ignore cover, disrupt TKd3 barrage is still useful; if the Psychic Lance is only 6+ against tanks (as it is in the rules as currently published), then it's shooting is only really useful against Marines and Siegers.

Still, I am looking forward to using this unit in an EA game, and I heartedly recommend it to you all. ?This is doubly true if you happen to own a Warlock with a Powerfist and you favor assaults.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 4:46 am 
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Quote (Suvarov454 @ 02 April 2006 (23:11))
Quote (tneva82 @ 02 April 2006 (20:03))
Which is another reason NOT to use that part of experimental rule... not to mention cobra which will be just broken if you use that darn MW=inf column rule.

Ah. ?I thought that the prevailing opinion was in favor of it. ?My Orks and Warlock will be saddened. ?Is there a similar difference of opinion about the 4+/5+ 3 pt barrage? ?

I am in favour of the 3BP change from 6+ AT to 5+ AT. Our group has been using this experimental rule for ages now and it is a great change IMO.

The MW barrage using AP factors against everything I am much less keen on.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 5:31 am 
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I am in favor of MW's using the AP column, mainly because leaving things the way they are, the cobra (hitting on a 6) is too random to be used reliably at it's current cost. The same goes for the warlock hitting on a 5+. This is especially true when you consider that these guys will probably be doubling most of the time to get their 30cm weapons in range, and so will be hitting on a 7 and a 6, respectively.

Also, I was under the impression that the cobra's points were based on the assumption that the experimental rule would be enacted.
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tneva82
 Post subject: Phantom / Warlock - worth it?
PostPosted: Mon Apr 03, 2006 6:24 am 
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Quote (Suvarov454 @ 03 April 2006 (00:11))
Ah.  I thought that the prevailing opinion was in favor of it.

I don't know(or particulary care) about prevailing opinion. That's MY opinion and barring tournaments where I'm forced to use it that's one rule I'll NEVER use. Cobras are already good enough, thank you very much, no need to make them point and click unit.

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