Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Using Saim-Hann

 Post subject: Using Saim-Hann
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 2:17 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
Quote (woodelf_dave @ 23 Jan. 2006 (20:06))
While in about 12 games with this list my win ratio is just over 50% in discussion with my gaming group this might be due to the fact my opponents know I`ll be play testing Saim-Hann and can tailor their armies accordingly.

2) Windrider Warhosts to drop to 2+ initiative. ?This seems to ?
? ?fit the fluff well although be prepared to fail a lot of
? ?activations (especially with no supreme commander
? ?available).
? ?Incidentally, with Ulthwe armies given a strategy rating of
? ?5+ to reflect the abundance of Seers etc, it might be
? ?fitting for the barbaric nature of Saim-Haan to be reflected
? ?in a 3+ strategy rating. ?I certainly wouldn`t be adverse to
? ?either of these suggestions as they do fit the fluff.

Just for comparison purposes, what is your percentage of wins with other armies? Or do you play exclusively with Saim-Hann?

Winning 50% sounds pretty balanced. I am guessing that you feel your percentage would be higher, however, if your opponents were not tailoring their army for yours?

I don't have too much of a problem with the idea of dropping the initiative to 2+, but I rarely see a 1+ activation with a Wind Rider War Host that is making an Engage action. In fact, I know when I have a 2+ because when I fail it, it is memorable!

Given that S-H needs to assault (my premise) and that a large Jetbike formation is not likely to carry the day, you really need at least one more unit in support. That means advancing a unit to within 15cm of the target, firing to get the Blast, then retaining the initiative to engage with the Wind Riders. That is probably a 2+ or 3+ (depending upon whether you are using another Wind Rider formation or Guardians), followed by a 2+. Failure of the second roll means the supporting unit is hanging out in the breeze. That usually means the destruction or crippling of the support unit.

Two 2+ rolls is about 70% chance of success. A 3+ followed by a 2+ makes it about 56%. If we lowered the initiative to 3+ that would make the maneuver about 45% successful. Without a re-roll (SC), I don't think the Saim-Hann's would be viable.

As for the Strategy Rating, remember that it represents (1.5): "a mixture of its aggression and the ability of its commanders". If your reference to fluff is the "Inquisitor's Report", well, remember that is an Imperial Inquisitor's biased opinion. I would go more by the statement:

Wild Rider Chiefs inspire fierce loyalty in their followers and their eternal honour...


...and so on. In other words "fights independently on the battlefield" counter-balances "fierce". I think the Strategy Rating should be better than Orks and stodgy Tau.

Dale

P.S. Thanks for the BatRep and insights.

_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Using Saim-Hann
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 5:52 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Edinburgh
[quote="code_ronin,24 Jan. 2006 (01:17)"]Just for comparison purposes, what is your percentage of wins with other armies? Or do you play exclusively with Saim-Hann?

I play Imperial Guard, Marines, Lost & Damned and Eldar in all its flavours. I am no better or worse with Saim-Hann than any other army

[quote="code_ronin,24 Jan. 2006 (01:17)"]Winning 50% sounds pretty balanced. I am guessing that you feel your percentage would be higher, however, if your opponents were not tailoring their army for yours?

Earlier views on the Saim-Hann list seemed to indicate it was too powerful to the point of the list nearly being "broken". My experience with the list leads me to believe it is a slightly too powerful but perhaps not as bad as others have found it. However it would seem logical that if my opponents were fine-tuning their armies to play my Saim-Hann then my results might not seem as good as others.
My gaming group have agreed to try playtesting the list without this advantage being present.


If the list is too powerful then what can be done to make it more fair (other than a complete revamp - which might, of course, be quite nice to see. However that might throw up its own problems).
I think its fairly well accepted that the cost of the Windrider hosts and the upgrades are too cheap which is why I play with the 250pt base cost & 100/150pt upgrades (this of course might also help explain why my games make the list seem a bit more balanced).

The only thing that makes my regular opponents wince is the Storm serpent move and then retain initiative & assault with the 1+ initiative Windriders. ?Consequently I have come to the conclusion that 2+ for these might be better. Fits the fluff about wild fighters better. ?After all, they are Saim-Hanns equivalent of Guardians and probably shouldn`t be as organised as Ulthwes Black Guardians (1+ initiative).

Incidentally there doesn`t seem to be much concern in my gaming group over the large Windrider warhosts that can be put together (as long as they are priced corrrectly). It might be that as more "mature" gamers, it fits our old experience of earlier editions of Space Marine where you could field a huge Saim-Hann windrider host. To us thats how the army should look (it looks ace on the tabletop too!!).

As to the possibility of the Strategy rating perhaps dropping to 3+. That came about during our group discussing the various Eldar spin-off armies. It seemed that there has been a pretty overwhelming view of the almost feral, barbaric nature of the Saim-Hann compared to other craftworlds (see SC discussions) and to us it looked like they were becoming the polar opposite to Ulthwe and as the latter have had their Strategy rating raised to 5+ it looked sensible to reduce Saim-Hanns to 3+.

However would all these measures make the list a bit weak ?
Possibly so, but that would only become clear after further playtesting.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Using Saim-Hann
PostPosted: Tue Jan 24, 2006 6:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 6:51 pm
Posts: 127
Thanks for that commentary. I don't have any Storm Serpents (yet!), so my experience is that after the first turn (and sometimes during) the Wind Riders are going to be carrying at least one blast marker. So to setup the assault (which is really their only means of inflicting damage), you were effectively 2+.

I view the 1+ as a way of their aggressive/barbaric/feral (?) nature being able to throw off the effects of blast (i.e. the end result is that they are always 2+). Maybe a better ways is to make them 2+ but give them the ability to ignore the -1 for blast (i.e. a special rule provided by the Wind Rider Chieftain)?





_________________
Have keyboard, will travel.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Using Saim-Hann
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 2:17 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Aug 25, 2005 12:27 pm
Posts: 72
Location: Edinburgh
I`m not sure introducing more special rules is the way to go.
I`d rather the army was considered "balanced" by simply adjusting current troop composition and/or costs.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net