4+ FF with 5+ RA on the first hits? And you have to take them to get the aspects...so just take more and lots of cheaper stuff.

I think people are saying that its the combined package rather than one formations stat's over another that make this a little bit OTT.

But they cost almost as much as an aspect formation >.< Which also has 4+ FF and 5+ RA.

How about an alaitoc army with ranger hosts and dire avengers formations. The only edge Ulthwé has over that is SR5...

And auto retain 3 times

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Autoretaining 3 times.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

No, because they will lose 1+ init. That's the entire point here, isn't it? If they lose 1+ init, what have they got left?

Geeze people.

SR5 and more/better Farseers.

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So nothing. Ulthwé is then all about the seers with Black Guardians reduced to a different name for their warhost.

Init 1+ is overpowered. Suggest something else?

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

SR 5 is a big boost to setting up for following turns, not just as a bonus for the Ulthwe player but it also a negative affect on opponents positioning of formations.

An extra Farseer in each BG formation gives 2 commanders,2 CC specialists in a predominantly FF formation with only a very slight downgrade in FF abilities of the formation (I've found it makes targetting some formations far less risky - ie. Devastators/Skorchas even warhounds etc).
The ability to bring the Avatar on over a bigger area (within 15cm of a Farseer,having 2 should mean they are positioned to give a greater range to where the Avatar can come on).
The list is great for setting up combined assaults (more commanders).
Less of a fear of snipers taking out a couple of Farseers and the Avatar being unavailable to the army.

I've predominantly used the E-UK lists over the last couple of months (to get ready for tournaments) and find the initiative 2+ on BG fine even with all the other units unavailable to the Ulthwe.

I've played Ulthwe' a couple times (maybe more but my memory is sketchy) and it never felt overly powerful, but I will admit two games is difficult to judge the nuances between Biel-tan and Ulthwe'.

I can tell you however that I argued till I was blue in the face that Biel-tan would never survive without Spirit Stones... Until I tried it and said, "Huh, that wasn't bad at all." Before a change is instituted might I suggest that the next time anyone plays with Ulthwe', they keep track of "what if".

If you are playing with Init 1+, keep track of how many times it would have failed had you been at 2+. Roll for initiative even with no BMs. It will slow you down by MAYBE 10 minutes for the game and you can post some feedback here. Remember to record potential changes to the rallies at the end too.

If you are playing with Init 2+, do the same thing but as if you would have had 1+. Post as necessary.

This is good data to have. I'm not suggesting full batreps, just some comments (although batreps are always nice).

And judging from the number of people who say they play Ulthwe', we should have plenty of data to work with within 1-2 months. It's a win-win.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Rather interestingly, at the recent EpicUK Grand Tournament, in my game against Tiny Tim, Tim would have auto-passed two (retaining) rolls that he in actuality failed (needing a 2+, he rolled a 1, once on turn 2, once on turn 3).

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Init 1+ was perfect. Other options, maybe 3+ FF?

Except it wasn't perfect, because it led to 3 automatic activations in a row, which is overpowered.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

It described Black Guardians perfectly and elegantly.

And was unbalanced in the epic rules.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread