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Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:13 pm 
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not killing them was a close call.


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Pulsar
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:15 pm 
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:17 pm 
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Anyways Pulsar... do you reckon the list is a bit weak, or have you just been unlucky lately?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:21 pm 
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I would have not taken too kindly to the mother of little-Johnny-sticky-fingers.  I'm surprised you didn't make the news.

Not sure what is wrong with your lists.  They seem fine at first glance and in fact I've fielded similar armies in the past.  Hmmm....

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:34 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,15:17)
QUOTE
Anyways Pulsar... do you reckon the list is a bit weak, or have you just been unlucky lately?

i think a bit of both, i have not tried using revenants with there spirit stones yet so i think thats next (and hopefully i'll make some holo saves), but i do think that there is a tweak that is needed i think that Farseers should get spirit stones back, as other people have said they are a lot of points for a maxed out unit and in most other armys a formation of that cost can have at least one Leader.

maybe they should only have them if there are wraithguard/wraithlords in the formation due to the presents of spiritseers?




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Soren
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:11 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,13:31)
QUOTE
So, any other voices to hear and experiences to relate? Are the Eldar now a bit underpowered?

Shaking the head and laughing

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:14 pm 
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I assume your reply means you think they're still overpowered?




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Moscovian
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:15 pm 
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Sotec's parting shot at fixing the Eldar was the idea of giving leader to each of the titans.  It would have ended up with a funky dynamic with the Revenants having two leaders but I don't think it would have been all that bad.  Not that it would have helped your game, but still...

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:23 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,13:31)
QUOTE
So, any other voices to hear and experiences to relate? Are the Eldar now a bit underpowered?

I think their main weakness is their crappy initiative. Even orcs are better with their +2 to double and engage that allows you to make the list accordingly (makes them feel like marines). Also when your opponents learn how the hit-and-runs and warp gates work, the surprise element is lost.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 5:31 pm 
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(Crabowl @ Dec. 14 2007,16:23)
QUOTE
I think their main weakness is their crappy initiative. Even orcs are better with their +2 to double and engage that allows you to make the list accordingly (makes them feel like marines). Also when your opponents learn how the hit-and-runs and warp gates work, the surprise element is lost.

Well, Eldar can have a complete army of 1+ initiative formations, so I'm not sure how that's crappy...  *laugh*

Imperial Guard have 2+ just like all the non-Aspect/non-Titan formations in the Eldar army, so, theoretically, that should've been a "wash" in a Guard vs Eldar game.

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Charad
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:00 pm 
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Eldar are not underpowered, but I agree on that their initiative is a bit low for elite army and it makes supreme commander a must unit every time. But still they definately aren't overpowered at all!

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Chroma
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:10 pm 
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(Charad @ Dec. 14 2007,20:00)
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Eldar are not underpowered, but I agree on that their initiative is a bit low for elite army

I'd say the Aspect Warriors and the Titans are the "elite" forces of the Eldar, and they're all 1+ initiative.

One must remember that Guardians are, in essence, the militia/reserves of the Eldar, not the front line fighting forces, at least for most Craftworlds.

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Crabowl
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 7:32 am 
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(Chroma @ Dec. 14 2007,20:10)
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One must remember that Guardians are, in essence, the militia/reserves of the Eldar, not the front line fighting forces, at least for most Craftworlds.

It's a shame they let guardians fly all their vehicles, but then again how could there ever be veterans when they all die :).

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Soren
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:30 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,16:14)
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I assume your reply means you think they're still overpowered?

Overpowered is such a hard word. I think they are better than average, yes. Even without leader for their titans. I don?t see the point why a pair of Eldar titans should get 2x leader and their imperial counterparts (or any other scout titan) has to do it without this. They are damned good as they are, you just have to use them right. also Initiative is only an issue if you do not buy a SC (which is risk with every army, even Marines). Else the chance of missin more than one activation is in line with any other armies (an far better than Orks or IG, because with BM they got pretty tough activation rolls, not including if they try to double, which is modifier-free for Eldar commanders)

Ah yes, did I note I quite often meet Eldar on the battlefield and they give a tough fight, even my opponent does not use nasty gate tactics because he dislikes it. (stormserpent more than 110cm attacks with adjacted 30cm repositioning to attack again :;): with other nasty things)

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Ginger
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Sat Dec 15, 2007 11:53 pm 
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I'd have to agree with the bulk of comments above - they are not really under-powered as specialist. More than any other army, you have to use the correct forces to achieve particular aims, and as such the Eldar have all the right tools for the job. However, this does mean that they work better with larger armies (3000+); any less, and inevitably you end up leaving behind the tool needed, or having to weaken the army composition to the point where they rapidly become ineffective.

Obviously, Eldar are very brittle, and rely on the hit-&-run and post assault consolidation tactics to keep out of trouble, and as such really work best in counter-strike tactics. As for the SC, I rarely use one because if the army is correctly used, most formations are either all outside enemy shooting range, or all in assault range, so 'failed' activations are used to reposition forces rather than marshall (or shoot). Also, the activation issues are largely circumvented if in any given multiple activation, Aspect formations are activated first and Guardians second.

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