Init change to 2+ and stricter "living few" rules is neccecary to make this balanced list for sure!

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NetEA NetERC Xenos List Chair is now looking into this.

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Well, going for approval means at least 18 battlereports so the unbalance would be handled within that process, but I agree that the Iyanden might be too powerful as it is right now. Limiting activations also seems like a good way to go...

In Epic UK Ulthwe have an even higher record than Iyanden but as most of the games is played by the same player chances are that he might be really good at this...or that any Eldar in a Vampire is good?

Some of the issues GlynG:s points out comes from the core list so perhaps it's best to address them there first before we go on and change this one? I just recently read through the Biel Tan thread and it has the same problem as this one: nothing gets done...
Btw, how come the Eldar don't have any sub Champions? Surely the Eldar is a big enough race to have several people trying to get it going? Thatway we might end up with more flavour

So if we would fix this, fix Biel-Tan first!

UK results are affected by who is playing the list - note the current RichardL effect on the Krieg.
EUK also took the view that the main formations of Wraithguard were underpriced at their original points and did increase them. This has made the list very hard to play due to the constraints on the number of activations that they can now take and also seen a big drop off in the use of this army.

Fearless MW toting RA formations are very difficult to balance in Epic.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

I wonder whether they just need to be made even smaller, like 4 units and each one taking 2 spaces in a vampire. They'd be closer in power to the other eldar assault formations that way but with advantages and weaknesses. They'd balance easier.

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Ah, goodo I was going to ask who the Xenos chair was out of curiosity but then I saw your signiture.
18 battle reports are important and test things out in game but they don't magically make an unbalanced list balanced. Discussion and feedback helps but shrewd judgement and decisions by the army champion are vital.



Absolutely. All the Eldar lists share elements and the Biel-tann list should be looked over, thoroughly tested and approved before much work is done on the other craftworlds. If I were to become eldar army champion I would put out draft lists for the 5 main craftworlds but as much as possible focus playtesting and efforts onto getting craftworlds approved one by one.

Spectrar Ghost did make a number of good changes, but also some less good ones (here's looking at you 3 shot Scorpion).


I'm surprised a 25 point increase to the Wraithguard led to a big reduction. I have in mind lower initiative and a few appropriate small tweaks to the formation that would make slightly less good, while keeping the cost at 350.

Well SG is just absent at the moment so before we look to crown a new king we need to know where we are going first.

However, keep on discussing.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Just absent for a year....

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https://epic40ksweden.wordpress.com/

"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
"Your feelings are hurting my thoughts" - Aron Flam

Claws away - it's six months since the last post.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

I would like the AC to take care of Biel-Tan and to let other people taker care of the other lists. This will make the process more fun and alive.
Also before we can move on with this and the other lists we really need the Biel-Tan list to be "almost" finished or else all playtesting etc would be wasted.

The problem with Iyanden have several solutions, me personally dosn't like some of them, like the initiative solution because it makes a very expensive unit and army to rely on luck too much. (or absense of bad luck ) Not that many "elites" have 2+ initiative because it is (in my opinion) boring. I usually take 2-3 units and they get blastmarkers pretty quick so it would mean that I would lose one of their activations/turn on turn 2 and forward... Usually thats ok but a unit that costs 350-750 points.
I think we should wait with the solution until we have a proper AC (or sub-AC) in place. Be it Spectral Ghost reappering or some other guy...

Also it would be nice if the Champion actually owned the army he is championing(?) Right now the AC was suprised more then a year ago when I and others pointed out that the Wraithguards were Init 1+ with the Spiritseer. He promised to look into it next morning and come up with a solution but that was August 2013... Also that shows that he hasn't played a single game with them (for several years at least).
This is kind of a small community, before this booom there were 2-3 people discussing and playing with a Iyanden force in this thread. (and some frustrated opponents ) Please think twice before making big changes, some of us have spent several hours with a brush and knife to make this army.

I agree with almost everything Uvenlord sats. But wiuld also like to point out that 650p Leman Russ Tank Co also gets a 3+ Init with a BM...

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"You have a right to be offended" - Steve Hughes
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True but they have usually have a leader or two and dosn't rely on engagements so the loss is not that big. However the argument is relevant!, perhaps the IG is more used to failing activations so they have a better strategy for dealing with it

Lets see what happens and what SG says. The long absence and ignoring PMs isn't ideal, but the overall progress and lack of having put up any battle reports of playing the army is more the concern.


Hmm, different way of looking at things. I find initiative 1+ to be boring and things to be more interesting when there is a chance of failure.

The thing is Wraithguard really aren't 'elite', well trained soldiers at all anyway.

Their background from 40k is quite clear that the opposite is true, saying “Wraithguard do not see the world as mortals do, but instead witness an ever-shifting image of spirits which makes them slow to react to changes on the battlefield”. They even had a special rule to this effect called wraithsight whereby if they weren't led by a character they had a 1 in 6 chance of standing round in a daze doing nothing all turn.

Iyanden are too good at present (and I have used them in battle recently myself), but we're not going to make the army unplayable, just a more fair proposition for both sides. I understand more chance of failing with I2+ is annoying, but its fitting, more balanced, works fine in the Epic-UK list and other armies have elite formations with I2+ that do fine – Stealth Suits, DE Wyches, IG Storm Troopers, ect.

Isn't that exactly how the Wraithguards work now?
Like I said before, I can live with them beeing 2+ (and without a spiritseer) I just don't like it...

How long do we have to wait before anything happens do you think? (I had a similar moment in the Cadian list a month ago and still nothing. I do not think things will happen over night but perhaps in a week or two?)
Anyone know SG in real life so they could give him a hint on whats happening, I do not neccecary need a new AC just some response.