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Dark Eldar army type DE raiding force, true to GW fluff  73%  [ 24 ] DE Comorragh defence or expeditionary force  21%  [ 7 ] DE with Slaanesh elements  3%  [ 1 ] DE added to Slaanesh L&D  0%  [ 0 ] DE and Harlequins  0%  [ 0 ] Non-DE race with similar traits  0%  [ 0 ] Something else (please post suggestions!)  3%  [ 1 ] Total votes : 33

Dark Eldar army type
Icon-Of-Sin	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 6:24 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:38 am Posts: 66 Location: Italy.	I think an Impale should be a 0-1 inthe list, like the Warlock titan for eldar, and should be very powerful but not playable in small games (I think one in a 3500-4000+ points game is ok). Otherwise go with Slaver Assault Craft, they could be more like a TH... Kisses, Icon. _________________ Eldar, Eldar ?ber Alles...
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Xisor	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2005 8:22 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	I dunno. Firstly what the Impaler should mean to the list: Perhaps look at it being in the 300-500pts Margin. This makes it an effective ship for inserting troops, but still a very hefty investment. Now, I'm not sure if folks are aware, but Imperial and Chaos ships typically have crews in the tens of thousands. A 'moderately sized' Impaler doesn't quite give that effect IMO, that said, there's still work to be done on the idea, so we'll see. Otherwise, the Impaler is essentially a small starship, much like the Manta. Being slightly 'titanish' doesn't worry me as much as keeping it within the feel of the Dark Eldar. If we can have tracked and walker vehicles that fit the DE theme, then go for them, but if it doesn't work then throw them out the window! Secondly, the armour bonus. Simply: Look at the Vyper and Landspeeder. Vehicles blatantly get a big increase in armour if they go fast. It's said in the book that often for things like Light Vehicles(don't worry, I wasn't proposing lots of armour for the troops!) they have an unusually high armour value comapred with how much armour they actually have. This is down to them simply being very fast and difficult to hit. I think it's worthwhile examining this 'abstraction' closely for the Dark Eldar. It could perhaps represent better how you 'armour yourself with speed', or rather that a DE force in epic is rules-wise 'highly armoured'(for it's LVs anyway), but the vehicles themselves have wet-paper armour. Follow? Now, as Vanvlak says, the New Years parties haven't begun. But they will soon. So I must be off! Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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vanvlak	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 6:45 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am Posts: 10348 Location: Malta	Hi all. Er. Is this an Impaler? _________________ Back from oblivion (again)?
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Icon-Of-Sin

Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:56 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:38 am Posts: 66 Location: Italy.

Perhaps look at it being in the 300-500pts Margin. This makes it an effective ship for inserting troops, but still a very hefty investment. Now, I'm not sure if folks are aware, but Imperial and Chaos ships typically have crews in the tens of thousands. A 'moderately sized' Impaler doesn't quite give that effect IMO, that said, there's still work to be done on the idea, so we'll see. Otherwise, the Impaler is essentially a small starship, much like the Manta. Being slightly 'titanish' doesn't worry me as much as keeping it within the feel of the Dark Eldar. If we can have tracked and walker vehicles that fit the DE theme, then go for them, but if it doesn't work then throw them out the window! Maybe you misunderstood me... What I was trying to say is that, as you rightly noticed, the Impaler is more like a small starship than, say, a Thunderhawk, and so more similar to a manta (or even bigger). Considering what the Manta is in the Tau list and the stats you "proposed" for the Impaler, i think such a monstruosity should be pointed around the 800 more than around the 300-500, so you could and would play it only in games around 3000/3500 points. The 0-1 limit means only that you couldn't already play 2 of them at this point cost even in a 5000 points battle, so... I think that the largely used DE planetfalling craft should be the Slaver, more similar to the Thunderhawk and the Vampire, and leave the bigger Impaler to even bigger engagements!!! Hope that's clearer now... Kisses, Icon. _________________ Eldar, Eldar ?ber Alles...

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Icon-Of-Sin	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2006 9:59 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:38 am Posts: 66 Location: Italy.	Quote (vanvlak @ 01 Jan. 2006 (17:45)) Hi all. Er. Is this an Impaler? Dunno... I think the Impaler is more similar to a Huge Flying Jacknife... _________________ Eldar, Eldar ?ber Alles...
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Xisor	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 1:39 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	Not an Impaler(by my reckoning). Now, I came up with this for a Slavebringer Assault Boat, an upgrade to each 'formation' and it replaces the formations Raiders: Slavebringer Assault Boat Type War Engine/Aircraft Speed Bomber Armour 4+ Close Combat n/a Firefight n/a Weapon                  Range   Firepower    Notes 2* Dark Lances        30cm    AT3+/AA5+  Lance, Fixed Forward Arc 2* Splinter Cannons  30cm    AP3+/AA5+  Disrupt, Fixed Forward Arc Notes: Orbital Lander, Reinforced Armour, Fearless Transport Capacity 8 Units(no vehicles except walkers, no war engines), Damage Capacity 2 Critical Hit: The Slavebringer?s hull is totally ruptured, the Slavebringer is destroyed. Thoughts? _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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Honda

Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 6:20 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

First off, Happy New Year everyone! Now to the meat... Secondly, the armour bonus. Simply: Look at the Vyper and Landspeeder. Vehicles blatantly get a big increase in armour if they go fast. It's said in the book that often for things like Light Vehicles(don't worry, I wasn't proposing lots of armour for the troops!) they have an unusually high armour value comapred with how much armour they actually have. This is down to them simply being very fast and difficult to hit. I think it's worthwhile examining this 'abstraction' closely for the Dark Eldar. It could perhaps represent better how you 'armour yourself with speed', or rather that a DE force in epic is rules-wise 'highly armoured'(for it's LVs anyway), but the vehicles themselves have wet-paper armour. I understand where you are coming from and don't completely disagree with your statements. However, it should be pointed out that the DE "raider" is not considered a "fast" vehicle in 40K like Landspeeders, Wave Serpents, and Vypers. It is merely a skimmer. The "fast" vehicles you are referring to have an additional rule in 40K that allows them to go "fast" and get a tougher armor save at the expense of not doing anything else, including change direction. The DE raider does not get this rule as they currently stand. Now, do their jet bikes get that rule? Yes, I do believe they do and so they should get some sort of increased armor due to speed, but I do not believe that it is appropriate for the raiders nor other larger vehicles. My two yen... _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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N0-1_H3r3	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 8:01 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:29 pm Posts: 56 Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK	Quote (Honda @ 02 Jan. 2006 (17:20)) I understand where you are coming from and don't completely disagree with your statements. However, it should be pointed out that the DE "raider" is not considered a "fast" vehicle in 40K like Landspeeders, Wave Serpents, and Vypers. It is merely a skimmer. The "fast" vehicles you are referring to have an additional rule in 40K that allows them to go "fast" and get a tougher armor save at the expense of not doing anything else, including change direction. The DE raider does not get this rule as they currently stand. Now, do their jet bikes get that rule? Yes, I do believe they do and so they should get some sort of increased armor due to speed, but I do not believe that it is appropriate for the raiders nor other larger vehicles. Actually, you're mistaken. Dark Eldar Raiders are considered, in the 40k rules, to be Fast vehicles - indeed, their vehicle type is classified as 'Fast, Open-topped, Skimmer', exactly the same as the Eldar Vyper Jetbike (it should also be noted that all the Eldar Gravtanks are also classified as 'Fast', so size isn't a limiting factor for the speed of Eldar vehicles). Indeed, the fact that it's a fast transport is one of the few saving graces of the Raider - as vehicles go, it's resilience is appaling, and the ability to turn any hit into a glancing hit (by moving fast) is all that keeps them alive long enough to deliver their cargo. As for DE 'Reaver' Jetbikes benefitting from that rule - no they don't. Bikes in 40k are variants on the Infantry rules. All Bikes nowadays have the ability to 'turboboost', where they move up to twice the normal speed, but give up the ability to attack in favour of improved resilience (a rule that first appeared in the Reaver Jetbike rules, but has since been adopted by all bikes).
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Honda	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 2:14 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Ok, I had it backwards. My bad. Serves me right for not havinga codex in front of me. Perhaps I'm remembering an earlier version. Apologies all. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment
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Xisor	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2006 8:46 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	So, in light of that, would it be feasible to allow a bit of armour on the beggars, even if it's not 'really' armour? Plus, with Epic, things don't need to be as poor as they are in 40k 'simply coz', do they? Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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Honda

Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2006 2:49 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

So, in light of that, would it be feasible to allow a bit of armour on the beggars, even if it's not 'really' armour? Let's give it a go and if the original values are a little overwhelming, we can rachet them down. That's usually the opposite of how I like to do things, but it can work. I'm still struggling with vehicles that have an armor save equivalent to a Tau Hammerhead or a Falcon. Still, it would be better to get something down on paper and start testing vs. an eternal debate on feelings. So, let's go! Note: The recent list posted by Neal had some interesting things in it, although the armor value for raiders seemed too light to me (+6's). _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Xisor	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	Yes, a bit of caution is quite needed on this, but I don't see there being too many problems in getting it worked out. Now, to work! Now, here's my slightly modded list. It incorporates most 'known' things and the soul feasters(big talos). So, what's the thoughts? _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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Icon-Of-Sin	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 4:33 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:38 am Posts: 66 Location: Italy.	Quote (Xisor @ 03 Jan. 2006 (20:46)) So, in light of that, would it be feasible to allow a bit of armour on the beggars, even if it's not 'really' armour? I think we can try, yes, but I also think that an ?exciting part of playing DE should be linked to their "wafer-armor" problem... My idea about the Raider actually is much more similar to a Junkatrukk ( whit the ability to let the troopers fire) than to a Land Speeder-transport... I'd like to help you Xisor with this project because I know you aren't an Epic player and you could need help... And also because I LOVE Dark Eldars... But actually my job lets me post here only in the week-end... not enough to be useful with this, sorry ? Kisses, Icon. _________________ Eldar, Eldar ?ber Alles...
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blackhorizon	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:46 am
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Jul 13, 2005 9:40 pm Posts: 2842 Location: Netherlands	... But actually my job lets me post here only in the week-end... not enough to be useful with this, sorry   I wouldn't see that as a problem. During the week you can work on the list, post them away in the weekend. _________________ Light at the Horizon. Warp Rift Project Distant Darkness Eldar MMS GothiComp Hall of Fame http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176

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Xisor	Post subject: Dark Eldar army type Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:34 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 10:11 pm Posts: 515	Hi, Icon-Of-Sin: Where you say part of the thrill is in working with wafer thin armour, I don't see this as feasible under the current precedent of Epic. Not 'exactly' anyway. Rather, as is said: Having them being able to shoot from raiders would mean that your formations tend to 'stay' mounted unless their in an assault. Also, since when mounted the formation would consist of roughly four targets, I think we have our 'careful: they die to a light rain!' What am I on about? Simply: Keep the formations reasonably small. Thats only four LV targets when mounted. They are zippy and powerful, but they're very small, and once they start mounting blast markers, they struggle. Big time. Well, this also may be unworkable given how Epic works(in that not being a proper player, only a 'rulebook player'), but I think, provisionally, it's an interesting take to look at. As for only being able to post at the weekends, it's not a problem to me. Certainly, any contribution is needed, not only welcome! Still, I'm not a good person/poster to be looking at leading the project as I don't play the game!   Xisor _________________ "Number 6 calls to you The Cylon Detector beckons Your girlfriend is a toaster"
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