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Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2007 7:20 pm 
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In addition, I also have issue with the Supreme Commander upgrade being available for this vehicle.


My Tau playing mate sees the SC upgrade when fielding the Scorpionfish as an absolutely no-brainer, due to the bonuses it provides (The re-roll of course, but also a super-shield).


So yeah, justify this Orca Bomber/Gunship, both in terms of having a different 'fish' name (Why? A Hammerhead is a Hammerhead, no matter what gun it's armed with), and in the implementation that has been chosen (A Skimmer with long-range missiles, rather than a shorter-ranged bomber).

Ultimately, I guess I have to say that I've never thought that the Scorpionfish has 'fit' the list, whatever implementation is chosen.

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 1:35 am 
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I don't think this unit is really necessary. The SC can run with a Crisis cadre.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:03 am 
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I however have a lot more problems with a bomber. Bombs tend to be a lot more inaccurate than missiles. And thus would not suit Taus mind set.


Well, it literally says 'bomb bays' in IA:3, as you were happy to point out. :D


===

But the fact is, I dislike the Scorpionfish and feel it should go. It's just another impediment to getting the list accepted by either SG or FW.

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Jstr19
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 7:06 pm 
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I'm not sure the list needs the scorpionfish but it can be a pretty cool choice. Although technically the stingray unit is much better (gets more shots, breaks at 4 instead of three) the scorpionfish is much more survivable and it allows the Tau to deploy their SC out of harms way on their blitzkreig marker as Crisis suits tend to have to be risked to be extremely effective.
However, when I use one I feel that it tends to dictate the rest of my list as I need to take units with markerlights (Pathfinders and Stealthsuits) and I think the points can be better spent.
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baronpiero
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 8:32 pm 
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I find the scorpionfish is a very strong and very well fitting concept for Tau. Maybe you should have a look at an actual one:


(Picture by Jimmygrill)
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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2007 11:24 pm 
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I think that the Stingrays are too good. They need to updated in cost or reduced in ability

Like I said in the Cadres thread, I think Stingrays could be dropped to 1x AP5+ ignore cover for more balance.

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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Thu Jul 19, 2007 10:11 pm 
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Funny, Stingrays were upped to 2xAP5+ because they didn't have enough firepower at the time (all other stats remained the same).
=====

I'd rather see an Orca Gunship/Orca Transport than the slow-moving supportcraft Scorp'fish, personally, but I don't feel strongly enough about it to make a battle of it.

I certainly remember talking about seeing the Tau not using superheavies at all, and countering them with Air (or Mantas, but that's because the Manta was introduced in the first Tau codex).

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Honda
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 6:55 pm 
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/*rant on

I have been out of this forum for many months now.

Why?

Because of incessant bickering and nit picking of a list that was actually fairly balanced and fun to play...but that never seems to figure into the equation any more. People are too focused on "perfecting" the list as if that is even an achievable goal. It's not, a new group of people will come to the game, not like what you designed and the cycle will start over.

It might just surprise you to know that at least one member of the ERC plays the list and thinks that it is balanced, pending the review of all races aircraft.

Cut the Scorpionfish, chop the Stingray. Why not just cut out everything that isn't in 40K so that people aren't troubled with any difficult decisions?

It is impossible to pick any single formation type and think that you can balance it against all comers because there is no "apples to apples" comparison. That's not how a list is constructed. Too much of Epic is subjective in order to achieve a look and feel, style, or expected result. It's not supposed to operate the way that any one individual "thinks" it should. It is supposed to match a vision of an author/champion.

I don't know why, but I had hoped that over time more playtesting against a multitude of lists and opponents would point out that the list isn't as bad as it's made out to be. ?Equally skilled opponents win about 50% of their games. Yes, I know all about Battlestats. Their statistics are flawed because of how the data is recorded. It's data is invalid.

I guess what annoys me the most is the tone of the discussion. Most of you think you are engaging in "open" discussion. Your not. Your whining about something that doesn't work the way you want it to.

I don't apologize for the harshness in my tone, it is intended. It may get me bounced off this forum, but I feel that it's time someone stands up and says what needs to be said.

The current course of discussion is well on it's way to trashing something special.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 7:02 pm 
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Honda, not to be overly blunt, but do you regard your Elysian Drop Troops list as balanced too? Or is it just a little bit overpowered...

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jfrazell
 Post subject: Scorpionfish ... is there fluff
PostPosted: Fri Jul 20, 2007 9:05 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Jul. 20 2007,19:02)
QUOTE
Honda, not to be overly blunt, but do you regard your Elysian Drop Troops list as balanced too? Or is it just a little bit overpowered...

Its underpowered actually in its current form, but its a bit of a fluffy list. Whats your point?

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