Tactical Command
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Skyray and range
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=8773		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Pulsar [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range

(Hena @ Feb. 27 2007,17:59)
QUOTE
I'd request that the range is dropped to 60cm as 75cm AA is too good.

i agree!!
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Yes, it is rather good - with the change to eldar Tau get to have better aircaft and flak now :)
Author:  Charad [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
And that shoudn't be so! :)
Author:  CyberShadow [ Tue Feb 27, 2007 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Well, I am very glad to hear that my IonHead change has not destroyed the AA ability in the Tau!  :confuse:

I would entertain the idea of a range drop, but would like additional comments.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 3:52 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
I can't see a big problem with 60cm CS. It's a fair request. Makes the Tau equal to Eldar ... as it should be ;)
Author:  Charad [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Yes, bit more range, but not so accurate for skyray.
Also tau aircraft are very good interceptors, even they don't have so much flak, and they have both. :)
I support range reduction to 60cm, with 75cm the umberella just becomes so huge.
Author:  asaura [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 8:50 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
I also believe that the 75 range flak is a bit too much. (However, long-range fire (75 cm Guided Missiles) is also a Tau feature. Make sure you do not nerf them in an inappropriate manner.) Either 45 or 60 cm range would work well.

Another consideration is that all the Flak weapons in the game seem to have the same range for flak and for ground fire. It makes the things easy to remember. However, taking away the GM ability from the flak missiles will help with this: just put the flak attack on a separate stat-line and everyting is fine.
Author:  baronpiero [ Wed Feb 28, 2007 9:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
In my opinion, the immediate problem is not the Skyray but the Scorpionfish. That beast should certainly pay a premium for the ability. I'd say +50 pts for each individual one would be about right.



Personally I like scorpionfishs to have a hunter missile rack, they just look too cool that way (have a nice rememberance of Jimmygrill's converted Scorpionfish there). However there's a concern here because you don't necessarily want to spend that much AA on the Scorpionfish. + 100 pts for two, + 200 pts for four. That's a lot for a unit type which is a ground unit first and foremost.

If you want to allow for more ability to dispatch AA between formations, I'd suggest we reduce effectiveness and cost of each individual AA source:

Reduced effectiveness:
- firepower downgrade 1x AA5+ @75cm
- or range downgrade 2x AA5+ @45cm (I tend to prefer this one, I think)

Reduced cost:
- Have skyray 50 pts (-25pts for reduced ability)
- Have scorpionfish 250 pts (+25 pts for the newly added AA missiles)

Increased scalability.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 12:44 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
It would be a shame if it ended up with an Imperial statline - well with better armour, skimmer and long ranged AT attack for same cost :)

Flak being what it is and how its a nessecery part of the army you could drop it to 60cm and not have to adjust costs probably.

Drop to 45cm and then you would have to start playing it to find out if it was costing to much (but again hard to tell as people have to take them if they want cover). Even at 45cm 50points seems a bit cheap for what is still a good medium flak/tank.

What proportion of peoples armies are going on AA or AA capable units (and which units) currently? In the UK at 3000 point tournies all armies have aprox 4-600 of dedicated flak units and fighters (leaving out things like AA capable WE), some up to a 1000 if fighters are particularily important to them (Orks for instance).
Author:  Charad [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 7:42 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
I think range is tau thing, so 60cm would be approriate, also those missiles ain't rapid fire weapons (hydra, firestorm), but they are accurate, so if choice would be mine, I'll put them to be 60cm AA4+...
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Thu Mar 01, 2007 9:36 am ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Make them twin linked?

I have to say I've nowt experience with them, when I was using Tau armies I relied on 7 Ion's split accross two AMHC.
Author:  baronpiero [ Fri Mar 02, 2007 11:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Chris
It would be a shame if it ended up with an Imperial statline - well with better armour, skimmer and long ranged AT attack for same cost
I would agree if the hydra wasn't a little AP monster with better FF and not having to rely on markerlights to get AT5 shots. I mean, it's very different from an hydra with well defined cons as well, and could work well. Actually, a lot of Tau vehicles are a rather close match for imperial guard units, and their stats and cost in Epic tend to reflect that:
- Hammerhead / Leman russ
- Devilfish / Chimera
- Barracuda / Thunderbolt
- why not Skyray / Hydra?

About the range. The skyray's AA range should not be enormous actually, because the missiles need the Skyray's own markerlight to lock onto a target to be effective (but then they are very deadly). That means in Epic the range should be the same as markerlight, 30 cm. 45 cm is already stretching that, but just retains more truth than 60 cm range.

but they are accurate, so if choice would be mine, I'll put them to be 60cm AA4+...

Whatever we come-up with, I agree one shot would make more sense.
Author:  Lion in the Stars [ Sat Mar 03, 2007 11:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Skyray and range
Yeah, but 30cm AA is more or less a self-defense unit, and not the absolute terror to imperial aircraft that the fluff makes them out to be.
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