Tactical Command
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/

EA Tau Version 4.3.3
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5634		 Page 1 of 5
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 6:12 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Hi guys. Here is the latest version of the Tau force list for EA. It is still not totally there, and issues such as debate on the Jump Packs, and finalisation of the Tiger Shark issue are all still outstanding.

EA Tau Force List - Version 4.3.3

My Notes

- The Protector starship has still not been added to the collectors sections. This is not a commentary on the starship itself, but the list is already starship heavy. This is still an open issue.

- Drone turrets have also not been added yet. Can we reopen discussion on this to double check that we are happy with the stats for them and remind me what was discussed?

- The Drone Sentry Emplacements have not yet been moved to the main section. To be honest, I am still not sure if the totally warrant a permanent place in the core list (and I know that I am going to get flak for that comment!). They just seem a more specialist type of unit, for specific scenarios/missions.

- I did consider changing the speed of the Scorpionfish/Dragonfish to make them equal, and I agree that this should probably be done? but 20cm or 25cm!

- The Crisis Cadre has been given an increased initiative to represent both the ?bonded? status of the warriors, and to help with blast management. There is currently no points increase for this cadre.

- The Hammerhead ?leader? upgrade has been added.

- Markerlight restriction against air/space units removed.

- The Tiger Shark? oh boy, the Tiger Shark. I thought about this issue a lot. Many of the suggestions did not seem to address the issue. I want to keep the two shots on this thing, at TK(1). I see this as being a War Engine killer? not necessarily the ultimate Warlord destroyer but something that is very nasty to SHTs. Therefore, I think that restricting this to formations of one makes the Tau player think a little more when using it. I have not restricted the number available, as I don?t think that this solves the problem, and actually may hinder future attempts to balance it. I have also reduce the strength of the Railcannon to 4+. This means that it should average a single hit, rather than two of three hits. I have not changed anything else. I realise that the Railcannon change is a bit out from left-field, but it is a relatively minor adjustment which I hope does not change the focus of the unit, while hauling it in a little. I now await the outcry ? brace for impact! ?:D

- I have still not added to Tau names yet? I know, I will.

- Finally, I have not even looked at the Jet Packs issue yet. This is still in a real state of flux and required more debate. It will hopefully be addressed with the next update.

Thanks.
Author:  Tactica [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:02 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
CS,

Sounds like you are on the right track here and the changes sound like they are all appropriate from my perspective!

Well done.  :alien:

I must say that I'm happy to see the crisis cadre and networked drones. Those may be what we need to get the ball rolling on BM Management and I don't think you were over the top at all. Bravo!

OOPS!: Skyray "Hunter Missles" are different than the Scorpionfish "Hunter Missles". That's a JJ no-no! Can't have two weapons with the exact same name doing two different things. (I think you accidentally left off the AT6+ on the Skyray Hunter Missles.) :cool:

BTW: you may want to make "Networked Drones" as red font under AMHC as its a new option for the formation. Its also the only formation that has the upgrade option to the best of my knowlege and should make it stand out a bit for awhile.

Under the Upgrades section - there's two funny characters under Commander - I think they are supposed to be hyphens or spaces perhaps, but it shows up as a funny character when I open up the .pdf in adobe.

For tidy purposes... the list is actually labled 4.3.3 in the document header... but the link says 4.3.4... (may want the link to match the document header!)  :blush:

Also, just for general notification sake... the main thread header still says 4.3.2... may want to say 4.3.x or something so folks know there's a new update out!

General Comment and praise - YAY - you got the entire army list on one page, you da' man! :)

I like your handling of the Tiger Shark AX-1-0 variant. Cheers on that decision.

Cheers for updating the Manta and Moray FF values as discussed as well.

Looking like a solid list to test with - well done again CS.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
So, reduced firepower by 25% for the Tigersharks main guns, wonder if massing 'em still works. Will give it a try against a non marine force soon (as marines are just screwed anyway :) ).
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:35 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Sounds like you are on the right track here and the changes sound like they are all appropriate from my perspective!


Really? Are you feeling OK?  :D

Skyray "Hunter Missles" are different than the Scorpionfish "Hunter Missles". That's a JJ no-no! Can't have two weapons with the exact same name doing two different things.

D'Oh. You are right. This is a no-no! It meeds fixing. Thanks.

Under the Upgrades section - there's two funny characters under Commander - I think they are supposed to be hyphens or spaces perhaps, but it shows up as a funny character when I open up the .pdf in adobe.

Those funny characters are what happens when my PDF converter encounters bullet point lists.

the list is actually labled 4.3.3 in the document header... but the link says 4.3.4..

the main thread header still says 4.3.2... may want to say 4.3.x or something so folks know there's a new update out!

Take your pick! Version 4.3.2, 4.3.3 or 4.3.4!  ???  Sorry, fixed for clarity.

General Comment and praise - YAY - you got the entire army list on one page, you da' man!

I knew that you would like that!

So, reduced firepower by 25% for the Tigersharks main guns, wonder if massing 'em still works. Will give it a try against a non marine force soon (as marines are just screwed anyway

I dont see this as a reduction in firepower (if successful, the strength is the same). I just felt that this would make the unit slightly less powerful, without changing its focus.

Please do let me know your comments and experiences with it.

Thanks.
Author:  Tactica [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
@ CS,

ROFLMAO -  :p
Author:  Nerroth [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:16 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
CS,

Just a question: What made you switch the Hero missile salvo to 4 from 6?

The Hero and Custodian have the same missile strength in BFG (6 missiles - well the Custodian has 6 in the forum list, at any rate), as long as the BFG strengths are equal I would wish to keep them both at 6 Tracers in Epic.


Gary
Author:  Nerroth [ Fri Jan 06, 2006 11:24 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
More importantly, will this be the list you submit to Jervis?

And will you be sending it soon?


Thanks.


Gary
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 1:56 am ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Quote (CyberShadow @ 06 Jan. 2006 (20:35))

I dont see this as a reduction in firepower (if successful, the strength is the same). I just felt that this would make the unit slightly less powerful, without changing its focus.


? Don't get it, isn't hitting less a reduction in firepower?
Author:  Honda [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 3:58 am ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3

My Notes
- Drone turrets have also not been added yet. Can we reopen discussion on this to double check that we are happy with the stats for them and remind me what was discussed?


Sigh...Ok, I will.

I would also like to point out that the entry was in the previous WIP lists because, if someone should ask, then the Tau player has something to point to as far as the validity of the unit. If it's not in print, then how do you distinguish that from some person who just shows up and says, "I want to add Manticores to my Tau because I'm testing this post-Taros campaign list".


- The Drone Sentry Emplacements have not yet been moved to the main section. To be honest, I am still not sure if the totally warrant a permanent place in the core list (and I know that I am going to get flak for that comment!). They just seem a more specialist type of unit, for specific scenarios/missions.


Well, first off, I thought that something was in the "Collectors" section because there weren't any models, therefore you had to build them yourself. Then the section turned into sort of a "testbed" for units that we weren't sure of.

The sentry turrets do exist, however, do others not use them because they are there?


- I did consider changing the speed of the Scorpionfish/Dragonfish to make them equal, and I agree that this should probably be done? but 20cm or 25cm!


It should be 25 cm. As it stands now, it is the only unit that moves 20 cm in the whole list and there's no real justification for that speed


- The Crisis Cadre has been given an increased initiative to represent both the ?bonded? status of the warriors, and to help with blast management. There is currently no points increase for this cadre.


Someday, I'll get some crisis suits.


- The Hammerhead ?leader? upgrade has been added.

- Markerlight restriction against air/space units removed.


Thank you very much.


- The Tiger Shark? oh boy, the Tiger Shark. I thought about this issue a lot. Many of the suggestions did not seem to address the issue. I want to keep the two shots on this thing, at TK(1). I see this as being a War Engine killer? not necessarily the ultimate Warlord destroyer but something that is very nasty to SHTs. Therefore, I think that restricting this to formations of one makes the Tau player think a little more when using it. I have not restricted the number available, as I don?t think that this solves the problem, and actually may hinder future attempts to balance it. I have also reduce the strength of the Railcannon to 4+. This means that it should average a single hit, rather than two of three hits. I have not changed anything else. I realise that the Railcannon change is a bit out from left-field, but it is a relatively minor adjustment which I hope does not change the focus of the unit, while hauling it in a little. I now await the outcry ? brace for impact!


Personally, I'm not going to lose a lot of sleep over this. Your proposal is just as valid an approach as any other. I'm more interested in the fact that the list is out and can be tested.

Thank you very much for all that you do.
Author:  Breten [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:08 am ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
I've got my game tomorrow (8 hours) and I should be going to bed.  I'll be swinging by work in the morning to print this out and use the list.  Here's what I'll be using:

1. Battle Suit Cadre
  + Shas'O
  + 2 Crisis Suits
  + 3 Srealthsuits
2. Battlesuit Cadre
  + Shas'El
  + 2 Crisis Suits
  + 3 Srealthsuits
3. FireWarrior Cadre
  + Devilfish
4. Armoured Mobile Hunter Cadre (Railguns)
  + 2 HammerHeads
  + 1 Swordfish
  + Networked Drones
5. Hammerhead Contingent (4 x Ion Cannon)
  + 1 Swordfish
6. Broadside Contingent
7. Barracuda Squadron
8. Tigershark AX-10

I should have a preliminary report up a few hours or so later.  I might be able to get a couple games in if I'm lucky.
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Is it only me who goes for 10+ activations when playing Tau or playing against them?
Author:  Honda [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:07 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3

Is it only me who goes for 10+ activations when playing Tau or playing against them?


I did notice that about your lists. I am currently in the 7-8 activations range for 2700 pts, primarily to add a measure of sustainability over the long haul.

My experience so far has been that lots of small units give you an activation advantage early in the game, but that as those units become combat ineffective due to losses and BM's, that what you have left isn't able to exert the influence needed in later turns.

On the other hand, medium activations early on has meant that my units were more viable later on in the game.

Have you observed that you're still able to do the things you need to do in T3 & T4 as you did in T1/T2? The other thing I wonder is that in your last couple of games, the large amount of air assets might be masking the overall lack of effectiveness in your ground units.

Your thoughts?
Author:  The_Real_Chris [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:53 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Yes :) It generally means there no enemy around to stop me.
When you play this sort of army you have to be rendering as many units out of the game as possible.
My style of play is to use the activation advantage to outmanover the enemy then fall on units that can no longer respond. Those that activate before this point targeting enemy units that haven't activated yet, break them, then wipe them out (hopefully though that can be secondary). Whole idea is to push the opponents activations down even further. As long as your units keep their head down and either break unactivated stuff or destroy activated stuff that can't respond to you the relative fragility ain't a problem.

Sure if they are 'slugger' units that engage head on its a problem (small size) but if they are fast etc you keep manovering, sacrifice what you have to gaint he advantage and run rings around them.

All my armies are pretty much like this, I think my lowest is the Guard at 3000 who have 9-10 activations, my highest my siege guys who have 15-17 activations. Oh tell a lie, my titan legion has 5 or 6 generally (unless I'm proving a point about massed warhounds).

And the Tau armour is pretty tough, likewise crisis. Not too worried about them going down unless they get focused on. The scouts are alright too, though a little brittle. Remember I come at all this normally from my Siegemasters perspective (where the guns are so poor blast markers are about all you've got) so I'm normally overjoyed to have all this cheap armour, fiepower and mobility :)
Author:  CyberShadow [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 6:36 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Hi...

Just a question: What made you switch the Hero missile salvo to 4 from 6?


This post:

Page 4, post #3

I am willing to take discussion on this.

More importantly, will this be the list you submit to Jervis?

I will see what kind of feedback this gets, and if there are no makor issues then I will write it up and send it off.

Don't get it, isn't hitting less a reduction in firepower?

Semantics. The actual strength of the firepower is the same, it still has two, TK(1) shots and a hit is still a hit. The chance of actually making that hit is a little less, sure. This version will average a single hit per strike, rather than being likely to get both hits, but a double hit is still possible.

Sigh...Ok, I will.

:D  Sorry. It should not be a huge discussion, but I didnt want to throw them in without recent discussion.

Thanks guys.
Author:  Nerroth [ Sat Jan 07, 2006 8:39 pm ]
Post subject:  EA Tau Version 4.3.3
Proof of what hapens when I don't get to spend as much time poring through the threads as I should do...

I am surprised to see the inclusion of 4 Tracers in that list - I had thought that we (that is, Tactica and I) had settled on 6 for both the Hero and Custodian.

As stated before, I believe they should say the same, and stay consistent to the BFG scores (which, for example, is why the Bork'an Explorer has 8 Tracers in the Collectors' Section, as well as why the Protector - which has str4 missiles in the current forum list - has 4 Tracers in my proposed Epic rule set)


Gary
Page 1 of 5 All times are UTC [ DST ]
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
http://www.phpbb.com/