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Hi!
Legion 4: Forgive me if I am mistaken in this, but it seems that you have not read the Gue'senshi article yet (it's available in my signature) and because of this, you continue to miss the point that I am not trying to overload additional human units into the Tau list - my human forces are not from the same place that the gue'vesa in the Tau list are from at all...
I am not asking for any of my formations to be included in the 3SE list (the Gue'senshi would not have eisted until at least a decade after Kleist's membership of the Tau Empire) - the forces are designed to be operated as their own regiments, and thus s their own army list. In fact the only list I would even suggest allowing Gue'sensi formations to fight in would be a Dal'yth Sept list set after the Third Sphere Expansion - as Dal'yth is the Sept primarily responsible for developng the Kleist system and its new armed forces.
So I agree with your statements for the Tau list - but please understand what I am talking about when I say Gue'senshi, not Gue'vesa!
Honda: As you have noticed, I have sought to avoid creating the 'best of both worlds' kind of list you refer to (definitely no arty, no HH or Battlesuit formations - I have even removed the Battlesuit upgrades that Tau formations would ordinarily have in the 3SE list...)
The issue of the Manta has ben affected by this.
On the one hand, the same Kor airforce would provide support to a Kleistian or Garrusite regiment as it would to Hunter Cadres in theatre, as evidenced by the Barracuda, 'Shark, Orca and Moray options in the list. (Which reminds me, I should probably include a note as to what an Orca can carry in this list - or maybe assume it would be fairly obvious...)
Some of the Tau support formation options present (the Pathfinders, the T+Ps, Fire Warriors and Stingrays) would generally get around via Manta or Orca, as th ywould when supporting Hunter Cadres. Also, assuming the drop-V+V idea is tken on board, one could picture a hot deployment of Airborne Grenadiers via Orca and Manta, alongside Tau contingents and Kor fire support formations, clearing an LZ for an eventual Courier drop for the Kleistian Infantry, regular Grenadiers and Russ companies.
So, if I allow the Manta into the list, its use would implicitly (or I could write it as explicitly, should I keep it for aforementioned hot drops and/or limit it to 0-1 for regular army list selections) restrict the ability of a force to play to its stengths - as one could argue taking a Manta in a 3000pt game does for the Tau list, in both lists you sacrifice many other unit options by bringing the big fishy along!
On the other hand, I was originally against the Manta's inclusion, as I saw little place for it in the list as it stood, as probably more needed for Hunter cadre support, and that the reliance on a scattered number of smaller WEs (Baneblades, Narwhals, Morays) was more characterful than simply allowing the Manta to come along. Plus, I felt that perhaps the Manta would be too much of an advantage for the Gue'senshi to take.
However, both Marines and Guard can draw from Imperial Navy and Legio Titanicus assets (I see the Kor as acting in both roles for Tau-allied forces in an planetary campaign) without causing major issues.
For the Gue'senshi, a regular list choice would be perhaps poorly served by plumping for a Manta in anything smaller than 4-5000 points, as you'd both lose out on taking twin Morays (a great formation choice!) and take too many pointsaway from other formations and their upgrades - something I notice in the Tau list, too. Allowing the Manta would fit the background of the list, and not be too big a deal.
Also, I see the possibility of a hot drop-tailored list, with everything deployed via Orca and Manta, with no options taken which cannot be carried by either (Russes, Chimerae, regular Infantry) or get down by themselves (Morays, Baracudas).
In order to free up a little space in the Air Caste allocation, switch the Chimera upgrade for the core Grenadier formation for an Orca upgrade. Remove the Narwhal option and count the Moray formation as a Support Company. Any AV or LV formations requiring a Manta would have to be shuttled down turn by turn if there weren't enough Mantas to go around - so the order of formations dropped, and whether you keep the Mantas on-table for fire support, becomes crucial.
So, the Drop force can land and hit hard, but has much less staying power than a properly landed Regiment - and has to be much more carefully managed than a regular list does. Sounds pretty appropriate to me!
So, in sumary, my Manta proposal:
#1 - 0-1 in a regular 'landed' Gue'senshi army.
#2 - Work out a 'Hot Drop' list, where you rely on Mantas and Orcas to land Grenadier Companies and pertinent Tau support formations, as well as Kor fire support. (Could be relevant to working out a 'Drop Cadre' iteration of the Tau list, as Xisor suggests)
Thoughts?
Gary
_________________  Gue'senshi: The 1st Kleistian Grenadiers v7.3 pdfHuman armed forces for the greater good.
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Sorry ! My Tau language skill is very weak ! I'll shut up ... and get my coat ... 
