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(Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 12:22 am 
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Hi!


Part of the reason I cooked up the Tau lander thread was to help me figure out exactly how those Leman Russes, Chimerae, Valkyries, Vultures and Baneblades got from the hangar deck of a Custodian to the battlefield on a planetary surface. Of course, that aspect of the thread went a little AWOL!

Also, I wanted to figure out whether the Tau formations in the Gue'senshi list - such as Stingrays, Tetras and Piranhas - need, or indeed should be able to use, a Manta to be dropped or not, which is where the idea of a Moray conversion capable of carrying the Tetras and Piranhas came from. Of course, the Stingrays would need a Manta to ferry them and I am a little wary of letting the Gue'senshi have access to a fully armed Manta, (am I being overcautious or reasonable in this regard?)

However, I wouldn't mind a modified Manta with no Ion Cannon or Railcannon able to drop at least 8 or at most 12 vehicles (at least enough for a formation of Grenadiers on board Valkyries and one of Vultures, at most enough for a full Russ company, or the aforementioned Valks and Vultures along with either 4 Stingrays or 6 Tetras and 4 Piranhas) and/or up to 3 Baneblades   to boot.

This, of course, assumes that the Gue'senshi can be deployed into the fire as Hunter Cadres can, and don't need to wait for a clear LZ for a Courier transport or some such to land a regiment on the surface (I'd only want the Courier to be a transport from Custodian to surface, the Gue'senshi are too few to risk in a one-hit transport otherwise).


What are your thoughts about all of this? Is it fair in a large enough game to let the Tau formations in the army list - or Valkyries and Vultures, for that matter - be deployed from a Manta, normal or otherwise?

Would it be too much to let the Gue'senshi have access to a Manta at all?

Any thoughts on the issue would be welcome.


Gary

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asaura
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:26 am 
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Do the Gue'senshi have their own starships? If so, they will have their own surface-to-orbital transports as well. If not, they can just as well rely on all-Tau space assets.
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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:08 pm 
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Well, I'd see them as being transported onboard Tau capital ships, primarily those available to the Qath'fannor - so Custodians, Protectors, Heroes. (Not sure about the Emissary, though)

Hence my questions regarding which way they would get from the ship to the surface, and whether they should have access to something like a Manta or not (or whether the Tau formaitons in the list should have access to a Manta either)


Gary

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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:06 pm 
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I'm not referring the the Damocles Gulf Gue'vesa in the regular list, I'm referring to the Gue'senshi, the regiments of Kleistian Grenadiers (and Garrusite Dragoons, and Phaebian Guard) which I have been developing.

The fluff behind them and the list itself are to be found in the links in my signature.


Gary




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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:52 pm 
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Guys, I understand that the Damocles Gue'vesa are an aspect of the Empire's armed forces that need to be fleshed out more in terms of their transport, their deployment from orbit etc.

However, the focus of this thread is on the Gue'senshi, which have a very different set of requirements to the Gue'vesa, and I want to keep the issue of thrashing this out in here.

Could the gue'vesa thing be kept in a more relevant thread, please?

Sorry, but the two are very different concepts and I want to keep it that way.

EDIT: On the whole captured Imperial cruisers thing, for the time being I'd say the rules for Tau taking Rogue Trader cruisers suit for representing these ships on the tabletop - though a CL edition would be interesting, too.

Gary




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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:03 pm 
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That goes for you too, Xisor!


Gary

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:13 pm 
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My bad.  I was using the terms Gue'vesa and Gue'senshi interchangably, having read your list and background I still go with what I said before.  However, ultimately it's your background so what you say goes :)  

Orde

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:21 pm 
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Since this topic has been split, I have deleted posts which belong in the Gue'vesa logistics thread (quoted in the thread by Nerroth), here:

http://www.epic40k.co.uk/epicomms/ikonb ... =23;t=5350

Thanks.

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:08 am 
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Personally, I don't see the Gue'senshi being involved in hot combat drops or being flown around in Mantas.  I get the feeling that Mantas are primarily set up to carry vehicles based on the Devilfish chassis rather than having a 'big box' cargo hold.  Actually, I guess Mantas might be used as troop carriers for the Gue'senshi but I suspect that they would be prioritised for supporting Tau forces.

I see the the Gue'senshi more as planetary garrison troops and used in offensive operations as either extra numbers for defence of areas already taken or to mount a head on assault if required, something the Tau are not really suited for.  Thinking about it as I type they would also seem ideal to act as an 'anvil' for the more mobile and harder hitting Tau 'hammer'.

Well, that's my view for what it's worth.

Orde




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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 12:26 am 
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Well, I would envisage at least the Valkyries and Vultures - as well as the Tau formations in the army - being among the first to arrive on the surface, followed by the Russes, Chimera-transported infantry formations and SHTs.

Or, a formation of Grenadiers dropped via Orca (sound reasonable?)


Gary

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 10:26 am 
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I can certainly see the Orca being used rather than the Manta here.

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 11:54 am 
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Orca battle busses for Gue'senshi sounds perfectly reasonable.

I imagine that the Tau will 'hot drop' to secure a landing site (possibly supported by Vultures, but I don't know enough about them to say how they operate) and then the heavy equipment and man power can be brought in with  bigger cargo landers.  It's pretty much how the Imperium operates but with Tau rather than Marnies.

Orde

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Nerroth
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:44 am 
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An Orca is a handy means of dropping a Grenadier Company onto the surface, alright - it's already in the list!

The question is whether a Manta could be reconfigured to carry Valkyries and/or Vultures. Of the infantry units in the list, it would be the Grenadiers who would be most likely to take part in the initial drop, and Valks+Vultures would play a significant role in that regard. As far as I'm aware, neither can be dropped directly from orbit - though if I'm mistaken I'd be open to suggestions...


Gary

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:13 pm 
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How do Vultures and Valkaries compare size wise to the Devilfish?  I know there's a size comparison chart in IA3 but my copy is out on loan so I can't check.  My gut feeling is that they are quite a bit bigger so would require quite a big modification.

Can Vultures and Valkaries not be dropped from orbit anyway?  If not I would have thought they could be dropped from high atmosphere from low flying transport space ships?  This would equate to a planetfall in Epic terms.

Orde

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colonel_sponsz
 Post subject: (Gue'senshi) AV/WE Lander?
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:37 pm 
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This is still bugging me. ???

I can see why you would want to allow V&V's to be carried in a Manta for transfering from orbit but I can't see how it would work in an Epic game.  Why would you risk bring a Manta onto the table in order to unload some fliers?  Surely they would unload the V&V's off table and allow them to fly in under thier own power to drop thier troops and the Manta would stand off providing fire support?  In Epic game terms there would be no need to transport the V&V in the Manta.

Edit:  I'm not trying to rubbish anyone's ideas here, I just can't quite see where Nerroth is coming from.

Orde




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