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[Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=5437		 Page 1 of 1
Author:  Chroma [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 5:23 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Certain factors in the Tyranid development (such as Hive Tyrants unable to enter jungle areas!) inspired me to think of this. ?I think it would aptly apply to XV8 Crisis Suits and such. ?Let me know what you think.

Agility

Despite their larger size and mass, some armoured units are much more manoeuvrable than others; able to side-step dangers that might damage a walking vehicle or get into spaces thought only traversable by foot troops. ?These units have agility. ?Units with agility are treated as infantry for all terrain movement effects, meaning they will not have to take dangerous terrain tests unless the area is hazardous to infantry, in which case it makes a normal dangerous terrain test. This does not grant the unit a cover save, it only allows it to move through certain terrain.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Fri Nov 18, 2005 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
I am not sure. Firstly, this sounds very similar to the Walker ability, and secondly I dont think that introducing this ability at a time when the Eldar cant have it would be well received.  :devil:

In general, I would not want to add extra abilities and rules unless there was a real need for them and a real niche that was not otherwise covered by existing abilities. It is an interesting train of thought, though.
Author:  HecklerMD [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 10:42 am ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
I posted something similar 2 days ago:

"Tau Walker:  Units with Tau Walker treat all Impassable terrain as Dangerous (Except Cliffs, which remain Impassable), and may re-roll failed dangerous terrain checks as per the Walker special ability."

No terrain gives a 3+ save except Fortifications, which wouldent help XV8s and wouldent help xv88s much.

And then there is the "Heavy Infantry" idea, which I think would solve problems across many lists, but is a core rules issue and not a army-list issue.

IIRC, the main (if not only) opposition to any "special rule" is JJ himself, and, well, he's not here participating, is he?:(

Perhaps we can add some kind of solution to the Tau Jetpack Rule:  After all, the Special Rule "1.1.3 Eldar Technology"  in Swordwind covers 5 seperate systems, giving abilities to everything from Eldar Infantry to Titans.

"Tau Jet Packs follow all the rules for Jump Packs. Additionally, units with Tau Jet Packs are allowed to fall back from a charging enemy instead of making a counter-charge move. The units may move 10cm in any direction immediately after the enemy formation has declared an engage or air assault action against their formation (note that falling back happens before a charge is made, not after charge moves as with counter-charges).  Units with Tau Jetpacks may also treat Impassable terrain as Dangerous terrain as Infantry does, except cliffs, which remain impassable.

Heres what I think of this solution:
Its elegant:  It only adds to an existing rule, not creating a new one.
It solves the LV/INF issue, at least for XV8s:  Preserves the vulnerability of XV8s to all types of fire (as LV), while also preserving the XV8s mobility.

In general, I would not want to add extra abilities and rules unless there was a real need for them and a real niche that was not otherwise covered by existing abilities. It is an interesting train of thought, though.


I think the 8-page-and-growing thread at the top of this forum, and the others that have preceded it, seem to indicate that there probably is a real need and a real niche that has yet to be filled by the existing abilities.

Lastly, for fun:
...and secondly I dont think that introducing this ability at a time when the Eldar cant have it would be well received.

I think the Eldar have plenty of special rules already going for them, and so the only response to complaints from them would be to load them into a railgun and shoot them into the ocean or a volcano or a wood-chipper or something.  :p
Author:  clausewitz [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 5:24 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Hey Heckler, you stole my idea :)

I suggested adding to the Tau Jet Packs rule on the afore-mentioned 8 page thread.  But you have worded it better than I so I dont mind.

I think this is a good compromise as it addresses the two main points of concern.

1.  That some people strongly believe that Crisis should be vulnerable to AT fire.
2.  That others believe that Crisis should be able to make use of terrain.

And by simply adjusting an existing special rule we are not creating additional special rules.

It would be very nice if we could heal the rift in the Tau playtesters that this issue has threatened to cause.

I encourage those involved to add their thoughts to this idea.
Author:  Tactica [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Heckler,

I read your suggestion to add the following to jet packs,

Tau Jetpacks may also treat Impassable terrain as Dangerous terrain as Infantry does, except cliffs, which remain impassable.


If I understand your suggestion, you may prefer something along these lines:

A unit with Tau Jetpacks moves through terrain as Infantry as per the 1.8.4 Terrain Effects Table.

This would work to address the issue of E:A battlesuits not being able to enter...

1) Buildings
2) River
3) Jungles

...in E:A even though they can in 40K. (disclosure: these are some of _my_ big concerns anyway. I may be unintentionally applying my opinions/issues to your suggestion accidentally - just wanted to disclose that).

I may be completely misinterpreting your intention of your suggestion though. If so, I appolgize. Please ignore this post and carry on.

Cheers,



Author:  Chroma [ Sat Nov 19, 2005 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Quote (clausewitz @ 19 Nov. 2005 (16:24))
I suggested adding to the Tau Jet Packs rule on the afore-mentioned 8 page thread. ?But you have worded it better than I so I dont mind.

The thing is, it's not *really* a function of their jet packs now is it?

We're experiencing a similar issue in the Tyranid development in that Hive Tyrants can't enter jungle and Lictors occasionally knock themselves out against trees in the woods!

The concept of agility isn't to replace walker, but as a complement to it, since they both actually do quite different things.
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 3:09 am ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Well I can't see a problem with a rule called "Agile" for the Tau. It can be an army list special rule so it could then be added to the specific unit description (just like teleport etc) and we don't have the problem of introducing an across-the-board game/unit rule.

In general, I would not want to add extra abilities and rules unless there was a real need for them and a real niche that was not otherwise covered by existing abilities


Well maybe there is a real need if we can't get over the debate of LV vs Inf designation, CS. It's not like adding a new army specific ability would cause all other lists to immediately need to be changed.



Author:  Legion 4 [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 7:37 am ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Not real crazy about more new rules ... think we should generally work with "what we Have" ... :D
Author:  Dobbsy [ Sun Nov 20, 2005 11:08 pm ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Legion - the Eldar got new rules to reflect their specialties. Why can't the Tau? It's not a major item for a rule really (it only needs to affect a couple of units) - and the need to avoid giving Crisis suits LV is pretty important IMO.

This debate is starting to feel that it has no conclusion :(

edit -Sorry guys frustration creeping in :down:
Author:  Legion 4 [ Mon Nov 21, 2005 5:40 am ]
Post subject:  [Rules] Proposed New Specialist Ability - Agility
Officially, there will have to be a consensus ... ???  However, do what works for you ... :;):
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