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Author:	clausewitz [ Sun Oct 30, 2005 5:24 am ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Tau V4.2 Playtest V Imperial Guard I?m still a new Tau player (using proxy figures, shhh). But having read Jaldon?s ?Way of the Tau? report and with all the discussion on the new Tau list I had to have a go. For the record I didn?t know exactly which force I would be playing (but it had to be IG, SM or Eldar as those were the armies available). 2700 points, standard GT scenario. The board is about 5?x8? and we deployed along the long edge. I wanted to try out several of the new options in the list so choose the Swordfish, Piranha and Stingray contingents. With a Fire Warrior cadre with Pathfinders and the Shas?o led Crisis cadre to lead coordinated fire attacks. Forces IG (7 Commissars rolled) Tank Co.-9 Leman Russ 1 Vanq-650 (Commissar) +1 Hydra-50 Reg. Hq-12 IG, 1SC, 7 Chimeras-500 (Commissar) +2 Ogryn +2 Chimera-100 + Flak-50 Artillery Battery-3 Manticores-250 (Commissar) Artillery Battery-3 Manticores-250 (Commissar) Rough Rider Platoon-6 Rough Riders-150 (Commissar) Shadowsword-1 Shadowsword-200 (Commissar) Infantry Co.-1 Command 12 IG-250 (Commissar) Sentinals-4 Sentinals-100 Thunderbolt Squadron-2 Thunderbolts-150 Tau FW Cadre-8 FW, 4DF-300 +2 Pathfinders, +1 DF-100 Swordfish Cont.-3 Swordfish 1 IC Hammerheads-300 +2 Hammerheads, +1 Skyray-200 Piranha Cont.-6 Piranhas-150 -+4 Piranhas-100 Crisis Cadre-4 XV8-250 +3 XV15, +4 Drones, +1 Shas'o-300 Stingray Cont.-4 Stingrays-250 +2 Stingrays, +1 Skyray-200 Assault Ship Squadron-1 RC Moray-300 Fighter Squadron-3 Barracudas-250 Objectives were roughly symmetrical, the IG left objective near some woods and right objective in front of a hill. The Tau left objective was behind a hill, near some buildings and the right objective behind a forest. Deployment IG left was held by the Infantry company (in woods), the Shadowsword and the 1st Artillery Battery. The IG centre was held by the Tank company and the Rough Riders and the Reg HQ, the 2nd Artillery Battery and Sentinals held the IG right flank. The Tau (from the IG perspective) had the FW, Swordfish and Piranhas on the left. The Crisis and Stingrays were on the right and the Moray was in the middle. Turn 1 (Tau win initiative) Tau open the game with the Moray and then the Barracudas attacking the two artillery batteries. The 1st battery losses 2 manticores to the Barracudas and breaks, the 2nd battery losses 1 manticore to the Moray and also breaks. (no hits from AA) The IG respond, with the Tank company advancing and destroying the Moray. Next the Crisis cadre double to the front of the woods in front of them and fire at the tank company, no tanks were destroyed. The Reg. HQ then doubles forward and unloads on the crisis cadre in the woods. Despite a lot a shots only 1 gun drone is destroyed. (Moving within 30cm allowed the chimeras to fire their guns, but also brought them into markerlight range) With their targets now marked the Stingray contingent advance and fire on the Reg. HQ. (18 ignore cover shots) The results were quite devastating, with 9 IG infantry and 1 ogryn being killed. After that the IG moved cautiously, placing the Infantry Company on over-watch. The Fire Warrior cadre then doubled forward onto a hill, bringing their markerlights into range of the Tank Company. The Infantry Company on over-watch fire at the FW but no shots hit. The Devilfish shoot GMs at the tanks but no damage is caused. The Rough Riders moved forward and across to support the Reg. HQ. The Swordfish contingent then doubled behind the hill the FW cadre was holding and launched a pop-up attack on the tank company, knocking out 2 tanks/ The IG Shadowsword responds, moving to get and angle around the hill and blasted a Swordfish apart. The Piranhas then advanced beside the Swordfish and launched GMs over the hill at the tank company, despite a few hits no tanks were destroyed. The turn ended with the Sentinals moving to support the Reg. HQ and the Thunderbolts intercepting and destroying all the Barracudas. Rally Phase: Everything rallied except the Swordfish and the two Artillery Batteries. Turn 2 (Tau win initiative) The turn began well for the Tau. The Stingrays sustain fired at the Reg. HQ, killing another 3 infantry, 2 chimeras and the Supreme Commander. The Reg. HQ broke and retreated to the right side of the woods. Next the FW cadre led the Piranhas and the Swordfish in a coordinated fire attack on the Tank Company. 4 more tanks were destroyed and the company broke, retreating back to the Blitz objective. (It was all looking good for the Tau at this point) The Rough Riders charged into the Crisis cadre in the woods. Their infiltrate charge move bringing drones and XV8s into CC and with the sentinels providing FF support. In the end 2 drone and 1 XV8 were destroyed to 2 rough riders, the IG had +2 on the resolution and won by 1. The Crisis cadre retreated towards the Tau blitz. (This took away my last activation) The Infantry Company fired at the FW cadre, knocking out 3 of their Devilfish. The Shadowsword killed a Hammerhead in the Swordfish contingent. The sentinels fired at the Stingrays and missed. And the turn ended with the Thunderbolts strafing the Crisis cadre, with one casualty due to BMs. Rally Phase: Everything rallied except the artillery batteries and the rough riders. Turn 3 (IG win initiative) With the artillery rallied and free of BMs (thanks to Commissar), the manticore fired all its missiles at the Piranhas and Swordfish (trying to hide behind the hill and be in range of the FW for coordinated fire left them slightly bunched up). 1 Piranha and 1 Swordfish were destroyed. The IG retained and engaged the Stingrays in a FF. In the fight 2 Stingrays were destroyed and 1 Chimera. The resolution saw the Reg. HQ win by 3 (I rolled 1,1), the Stingrays broke and retreated towards the Tau blitz. The Crisis cadre moved to stop the Reg. HQs path the the Tau blitz, one Chimera was destroyed. Retaining initiative the Piranhas tried to kill the Shadowsword, missiles rained in but the thick armour meant only one point of damage was caused. Doubling forward the Tank Company brought its remaining guns to bear on the Crisis cadre, killing 2 XV8s. Retaining the Shadowsword blew apart the skyray in the Swordfish contingent, which broke and retreated behind some buildings. The FW cadre then doubled forward (I had to get something into the IG side of the board or lose at this stage) firing on the Infantry company and taking down 2 units of IG. The Infantry return fire killing 2 FWs. The Sentinals advance and shoot at the last Stingray, killing it via BM. The Thunderbolts try to finish off the Swordfish, but only kill one via BM. The rough riders could move to the IG right object to gain Defend the Flag, but as no other victory conditions are won decide to march across to contest the Tau left object with the Piranhas. Rally Phase: IG rally everything! Tau fail to rally Crisis, Swordfish and Piranhas. Turn 4 (VPs was 0-0 at the end of turn 3) (Tau win initiative) (At this stage I knew I had lost). The Crisis cadre sustain fires into the Reg. HQ, breaking it again. The Sentinals double around Crisis to take Tau Blitz. The FWs sustain fire at the Infantry Company, killing 3. The infantry return fire killing 2 FWs. The Piranhas advance and shoot the rough riders, killing the remaining 4. The Tank company doubles to the Tau left objective and shoots the Piranhas, killing 2. The Shadowsword advances nearby and kills another 2 Piranhas, who then break and leave the IG in control of the objective. The Thunderbolts fail to activate. Result: A win for the Imperial Guard (2-0 Blitz and Take and Hold) A good, enjoyable battle and one that I thought was going my way for a while. But perhaps too many experimental formations. And the early strikes on the artillery were expensive. No doubt you will all be able to tell me what I did wrong I didn?t think the Piranhas were overly powerful, but firing at a Tank Company is always tough. The Stingrays were devastating but terribly fragile. If there are any questions I can try and answer from my notes. (Apolgies for any poor grammer/spelling, I was trying to get in all written whist fresh in my mind.)

Author:	Tactica [ Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:02 am ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Cw, Thanks for the bat rep. First, the IG is a good list. So you picked a great first game to test out the Tau list. Second, the IG infantry's weakness is to fire at them when they are out of cover and engage them in h-t-h... Their numbers are hard to deal with in shooting once they get holed up in good cover. Well, the Tau suck at h-t-h worse than the IG - so the latter was not an option for you. You had a good Fire Fight on your hands here. He also took some h-t-h formations that could cause you some real problems. Good match up. Third, he took a solid IG list. 9 activations to your 7 at 2700 points. I can tell by his choices that he was a solid player. That's definitely the kind of bat rep that's good to see. If he'd had taken a bunch of hellhounds or odd combinations of upgrades to his formations, I'd have questioned his tactics probably. You were wise to target the Manticore artillery early, but was it worth the sacrifice of your Barracudas and Moray? I'd say no. Wow... that was really expensive - and you dealt with them for one turn, but you didn't kill them. I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to take the railcannon moray vs. the shadowsword formation. That had to be the most logical target for you. I know the artillery can work you over with that disrupt and blast marker effect too though... soo... From your list, i wonder if it would have made sense to try and mark them with a CF attempt - then moved something with GM in to deal the crippling blow to these formations. Probably wasn't achievable off the first turn - which means he would've had free reign with those formations for the first turn... hard to say if that would have panned out or not.... I really think the moray - even if it was going to be sacrificed, would have been better used vs. the shadowsword target. The Stingrays were wise to take against the infantry. No cover saves against infantry that has no armor save meant easy pickin's there... guess that was just a no brainer choice for you. He was wise to use overwatch as a counter. He was also wise to eliminate that Moray quickly with the Lemans. (BTW: Ouch - toasted it first round!) The Barracudas were short lived too from the Tbolts, he was wise to use that as his last activation as well. Sounds like a decent player. Turn 2, you had a bit of luck to start - no artillery to worry about... not rallying the swordfish probably hurt, but still, the artillery out of the way should have gave you some breathing room. Heh - and you won the initiative again! In turn 2, the stingrays appeared to help agains the infantry, but not as much as they did at the first round! The FW leading the pirahna's and swordfish to shoot on the lemans confused me in turn 2.... I thought the swordfish were broken still from turn 1? Wait a minute, maybe you meant they didn't clear any blast markers in turn 1 - but were not really broken - now that would make more sense. The rough rider charge hurt... that really put the expensive crisis in a bad way. I guess there was no way you could have previously moved them to avoid the infiltrating roughriders? Seems like a mistake on paper to let them get charged.... or perhaps an oversite? Maybe it was sacrificial as the formation had a job to do... I just don't like to allow a charge if I can avoid it with Tau. Not to mention, you lost an activation AND lost a further unit due to Tbolt strafe which followed... (I like to deal with planes ASAP - the activation gap you were dealing with hurt though... Well, I was about to tell you to start praying to a local Ethereal for your luck of not having the Artillery batteries rally again on end of turn 2... but then you say, but turn 3 you said the commissary cleared all the BM's for the artillery and the Manticores fired at the pirahnas and swordfish - I'm confused here! I thought you said at the end of tun 2 that everything rallied except the roughriders and the artillery... ? Turn three sounded really bad for you. Which turn about is fair play i suppose, but you took a pounding on turn 1, and then you gave a pounding on turn 2, but to receive a bunch of broken formations while all the opponent's formations rally on the end of turn 3... well, that's just asking to lose the positioning part of turn 4 if you couldn't really take some activations away... and those planes... Oh how you needed to deal with those buggers. That - and the tanks and shadowswords... man those things were wrecking you! The end of turn 3 left you in a bad way, i could tell. Sounds like the IG really had all their toys left (baring the tbolts who failed to activate) it sounds like turn 4 was just a good ol' game of kick the Tau baby at that point. This is encouraging though. I think you did probably take a lot of the new formations - but that's OK. That was good to see how they faired. The piranha formation and stingray formation were neat to hear about. The pirahnas would probably better suited to go help out the stingrays vs. the mechanized infantry and perhaps even use their speed to go mess with the artillery if you could have gotten them marked. The tanks and shadowsword in the IG lines were bears for you to deal with. This was the case in the old v4.1 list too, but the moray should have helps a bit. Hindsight being 20/20 and my imagination - even better - I think you might have gotten over zealous with the crisis. I wonder if you would have been better served to sacrifice shooting with the crisis on turn 1 and positioned them to avoid a charge, but get their macro weapons into range on turn 2. That would have gave you something for the tanks or shadowswords. I like to use my barracudas to do what the tbolts did to you... if I'm in a situation where I have less activations, I like to use my barracudas to draw in the enemy aircraft to my position and line my AA up in such a way that he must come to the deadly part of the tau table to deal with the barracudas. Now, that was when the barracudas still had 75cm range, now that they hae 45cm range max (all flier reduction now) that might not have been much of an option for you. With the AA range that we have, I would think you might have had the opportunity to 'lure' his fighters into your AA range though... losing that formation early was a problem. Their armor isn't very durable but they can pack a punch against lighter targets (like the stingrays) So they really have to be used cautiously. So I can't help but wonder if there was a way to avoid losing those early... granted, something else would have had to deal with the artillery... Looking at your list, your swordfish, crisis, and moray were really your only answers for the tanks and shadowswords. Looking at the list, You were kind of Macro-Weapon light and you were out activated... 9 to 7... knowing this information post battle, I wonder if losing one skyray and 2 pathfinders with DF could have gotten you 2 pin-point attacks from a hero... An 8th formation too. That would have given you something for the tanks or the shadowsword... Remember, Tau can be pretty MW light if its not for the aircaste helping out... and even then, we only get 33% of our points there and the barracudas are typically important to have fighter counter measures, so even less points to throw at th 33% limit will be macro-weapons. It would have also given you an opportunity to use the moray as a planetfall choice. maybe as an activation AFTER the tanks and shadowswords activated. just trying to do some Monday night quarterbacking here though. Now, all that said, I think you played a pretty good game. It sounds like you gave him a heck of a run for his money. Like I said in the beginning, This guy built a solid list. He sounds like a good player, and you were fielding a new list. Furthermore, your eyes were glazed a bit with all the new units I'm sure ( I know I would be anyway!) Most encouraging about this report to me is, I didn't hear any complaints and it appears you had some answers and retailation to deliver to him. Moreover, this quote says quite a bit, Result: A win for the Imperial Guard (2-0 Blitz and Take and Hold) A good, enjoyable battle and one that I thought was going my way for a while.

So he couldn't pull it off in turn 3, and you were able to force turn 4 - a good sign. You also only lost by 2 objectives. You also had a fairly close game with a bit of luck on your side with that artillery not rallying, and you were able to go toe to toe with some really ugly formations (Shadowswords, Roughriders, Tank Co, and Manticores) - until you respond, I'm thinking you may have even had some other options that you didn't leverage - you'll have to tell me if any of my suggestions above are valid to your game. Even if they weren't though, you lost and the game was enjoyable. That's huge! The IG, Black Legion, Orcs, and Eldar all all really fun to play in Epic. Tau wasn't quite there yet for me personally. I'm VERY pleased to hear you say the battle was enjoyable.

Thanks for the quick batrep of the new Tau WIP v4.2. A good list kick-off report! :;):

Author:	clausewitz [ Mon Oct 31, 2005 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Cw, Thanks for the bat rep. First, the IG is a good list. So you picked a great first game to test out the Tau list. Second, the IG infantry's weakness is to fire at them when they are out of cover and engage them in h-t-h... Their numbers are hard to deal with in shooting once they get holed up in good cover. Well, the Tau suck at h-t-h worse than the IG - so the latter was not an option for you. You had a good Fire Fight on your hands here. He also took some h-t-h formations that could cause you some real problems. Good match up. Third, he took a solid IG list. 9 activations to your 7 at 2700 points. I can tell by his choices that he was a solid player. That's definitely the kind of bat rep that's good to see. If he'd had taken a bunch of hellhounds or odd combinations of upgrades to his formations, I'd have questioned his tactics probably.

Thanks Tacitca. ?Yes the activation advantage the IG had was problematic for the Tau. ?It allowed the IG to use the last activations to move formations into assault range, while still having some solid formations that can take hits.

You were wise to target the Manticore artillery early, but was it worth the sacrifice of your Barracudas and Moray? I'd say no. Wow... that was really expensive - and you dealt with them for one turn, but you didn't kill them. I wonder if it wouldn't have been better to take the railcannon moray vs. the shadowsword formation. That had to be the most logical target for you. I know the artillery can work you over with that disrupt and blast marker effect too though... soo... From your list, i wonder if it would have made sense to try and mark them with a CF attempt - then moved something with GM in to deal the crippling blow to these formations. Probably wasn't achievable off the first turn - which means he would've had free reign with those formations for the first turn... hard to say if that would have panned out or not.... I really think the moray - even if it was going to be sacrificed, would have been better used vs. the shadowsword target.
I think you are correct, I was overly concerned with the Manticaores and the sacrifice was not worth it. ?I think I was concentrating too much on developing the ?killer blow? coordinated fire attack, and I didn?t want to loose shots to suppression via the Manticores. ?I didn?t go for the shadowsword right away as I knew I didn?t have any WE and all my formations could afford to lose one or two units. ?The idea was once I had smashed the larger IG formations the shadowsword would be easy to deal with. ?The Manticores could have killed a lot more than the one Swordfish that the shadowsword got in the first turn.

The Stingrays were wise to take against the infantry. No cover saves against infantry that has no armor save meant easy pickin's there... guess that was just a no brainer choice for you. He was wise to use overwatch as a counter.
Yes the Stingrays rained death on the IG infantry, ignore cover against no save infantry is very nasty. ?Not sure if I really needed the extra two stingrays though, 4 may be enough.

He was also wise to eliminate that Moray quickly with the Lemans. (BTW: Ouch - toasted it first round!) The Barracudas were short lived too from the Tbolts, he was wise to use that as his last activation as well. Sounds like a decent player.
Yeah the Moray was a little unlucky (if it had made ONE more save it would have survived). ?The Tbolts rolled really well against the Barracudas. ?Both of these move were gambles on my part, unfortunately on both occasions it cost me heavily. ?(The Tbolts rolled 4 hits from 4 shots, I made no saves)

Turn 2, you had a bit of luck to start - no artillery to worry about... not rallying the swordfish probably hurt, but still, the artillery out of the way should have gave you some breathing room. Heh - and you won the initiative again!

In turn 2, the stingrays appeared to help agains the infantry, but not as much as they did at the first round!
Actually the Stingrays just didn?t have enough infantry targets left, the remaining IG infantry (barring one Ogryn) were all killed at least twice over.

The FW leading the pirahna's and swordfish to shoot on the lemans confused me in turn 2.... I thought the swordfish were broken still from turn 1? Wait a minute, maybe you meant they didn't clear any blast markers in turn 1 - but were not really broken - now that would make more sense.
Yes the Swordfish contingent wasn?t broken just didn?t shake BMs.

The rough rider charge hurt... that really put the expensive crisis in a bad way. I guess there was no way you could have previously moved them to avoid the infiltrating roughriders? Seems like a mistake on paper to let them get charged.... or perhaps an oversite? Maybe it was sacrificial as the formation had a job to do... I just don't like to allow a charge if I can avoid it with Tau. Not to mention, you lost an activation AND lost a further unit due to Tbolt strafe which followed... (I like to deal with planes ASAP - the activation gap you were dealing with hurt though...
The crisis moved forward to shoot the Tank Company in turn one, and also the get in position to act as markerlights for the stingrays. ?I figured the Reg. HQ would move forward to attack the crisis and was happy for them to do that as I was banking on the stingrays punishing them (which they did rather well). ?The Rough Riders moved very late in the turn and I couldn?t do much about that. ?I hoped that the crisis ?Jump Packs? would be able to keep them clear of CC (and mostly it did) but the 40cm charge allowed the Rough Riders to reach b-t-b with drones and a couple of crisis. ?The combat was still very close run, if I could have just hit a couple more times I would have won but I rolled poorly. ?You are right that this was a turning point as the crisis loss at this stage was crucial. (I did get to shoot AA at the Tbolts 3 times during the game, but I never got a hit on the lucky beggers)

Well, I was about to tell you to start praying to a local Ethereal for your luck of not having the Artillery batteries rally again on end of turn 2... but then you say, but turn 3 you said the commissary cleared all the BM's for the artillery and the Manticores fired at the pirahnas and swordfish - I'm confused here! I thought you said at the end of tun 2 that everything rallied except the roughriders and the artillery... ?
Oops, I was bound to make the odd mistake in my haste to post. ?Yes it should have said everything rallied except the 2nd Artillery Battery (still broken) and the Rough Riders (just BMs). ?With nearly every formation having a commissar the IG were shedding BMs quite well, so when the 1st Artillery Battery rallied they rallied to 0 BMs.

Turn three sounded really bad for you. Which turn about is fair play i suppose, but you took a pounding on turn 1, and then you gave a pounding on turn 2, but to receive a bunch of broken formations while all the opponent's formations rally on the end of turn 3... well, that's just asking to lose the positioning part of turn 4 if you couldn't really take some activations away... and those planes... Oh how you needed to deal with those buggers. That - and the tanks and shadowswords... man those things were wrecking you!
Yes it all went wrong here. ?Unlike Jaldon?s opponent my opponent rallied both his Tank and Mech Companies after I?d broken them, and the artillery coming back at this point was another unwelcome addition. ?If they hadn?t rallied I could have taken out the smaller IG formations and been in a good position for turn 4.

The end of turn 3 left you in a bad way, i could tell. Sounds like the IG really had all their toys left (baring the tbolts who failed to activate) it sounds like turn 4 was just a good ol' game of kick the Tau baby at that point.
Yes, unfortunately turn 4 was a formality, the IG had weathered the storm and now just bullied the Tau off their objectives.

This is encouraging though. I think you did probably take a lot of the new formations - but that's OK. That was good to see how they faired. The piranha formation and stingray formation were neat to hear about. The pirahnas would probably better suited to go help out the stingrays vs. the mechanized infantry and perhaps even use their speed to go mess with the artillery if you could have gotten them marked. The tanks and shadowsword in the IG lines were bears for you to deal with. This was the case in the old v4.1 list too, but the moray should have helps a bit.
It was would have been tricky to get the Piranhas to get a decent shot at the artillery, I had the plan that they would sit behind terrain and fire at marked targets. ?And I thought it would be a good test of the ability of GMs to take on tough units (like Shadowswords and Tank Cos.)

Hindsight being 20/20 and my imagination - even better - I think you might have gotten over zealous with the crisis. I wonder if you would have been better served to sacrifice shooting with the crisis on turn 1 and positioned them to avoid a charge, but get their macro weapons into range on turn 2. That would have gave you something for the tanks or shadowswords.
You might be right, in which case next time I will need to have a cheap ML formation to take that portion of the battlefield in place of the crisis. ?But with the Rough Riders marching 60cm and then charging 40cm, there isn?t much of the board left to avoid them. ?(I still maintain they were unlucky, 4 XV8, 3 XV15 and 4 Drones should kill more than 2 Rough Riders, even if I hadn?t missed the 3+ save on the one XV8 that died would have taken the fight into another round). ?But as Jaldon put it ?No guts, no glory?, the crisis cadre was one of the toughest in my army and I felt it had to hold part of the line, take some hits and be in range to deliver its own damage.

I like to use my barracudas to do what the tbolts did to you... if I'm in a situation where I have less activations, I like to use my barracudas to draw in the enemy aircraft to my position and line my AA up in such a way that he must come to the deadly part of the tau table to deal with the barracudas. Now, that was when the barracudas still had 75cm range, now that they hae 45cm range max (all flier reduction now) that might not have been much of an option for you. With the AA range that we have, I would think you might have had the opportunity to 'lure' his fighters into your AA range though... losing that formation early was a problem. Their armor isn't very durable but they can pack a punch against lighter targets (like the stingrays) So they really have to be used cautiously. So I can't help but wonder if there was a way to avoid losing those early... granted, something else would have had to deal with the artillery...
Ideally you are right. ?As I mentioned the deep strike on the artillery was a gamble, if the Tbolts hadn?t finished off the Barracudas in the one pass I would have held them back for future CAP/Intercept on the Tbolts.

Looking at your list, your swordfish, crisis, and moray were really your only answers for the tanks and shadowswords.
Well that was part of the experiment. ?Would the 10 GM shots from the Piranhas make up for the lack of MW/TK? ?I think it came really close, the coordinated fire on the Tank Company did kill 4 and break them and the previous turn the Swordfish had killed two, so there were only 4 tanks left, one more volley would have easily broken them again (if I?d gotten the chance).

Looking at the list, You were kind of Macro-Weapon light and you were out activated... 9 to 7... knowing this information post battle, I wonder if losing one skyray and 2 pathfinders with DF could have gotten you 2 pin-point attacks from a hero... An 8th formation too. That would have given you something for the tanks or the shadowsword... Remember, Tau can be pretty MW light if its not for the aircaste helping out... and even then, we only get 33% of our points there and the barracudas are typically important to have fighter counter measures, so even less points to throw at th 33% limit will be macro-weapons. It would have also given you an opportunity to use the moray as a planetfall choice. maybe as an activation AFTER the tanks and shadowswords activated. just trying to do some Monday night quarterbacking here though.
I needed the two Pathfinders for their coordinated fire ability, is there are cheaper way to give a FW cadre coordinated fire then the two pathfinders? ?I will give careful consideration to your planetfalling Moray suggestion.

Now, all that said, I think you played a pretty good game. It sounds like you gave him a heck of a run for his money. Like I said in the beginning, This guy built a solid list. He sounds like a good player, and you were fielding a new list. Furthermore, your eyes were glazed a bit with all the new units I'm sure ( I know I would be anyway!) ? ?
I think I was just one formation short, one more formation in support of the crisis side of things would have turned the tables I think. ?And partly this was because I maxed out the stingray and piranha formations.

Most encouraging about this report to me is, I didn't hear any complaints and it appears you had some answers and retailation to deliver to him. Moreover, this quote says quite a bit,

Quote
Result: ?A win for the Imperial Guard (2-0 Blitz and Take and Hold)

A good, enjoyable battle and one that I thought was going my way for a while.

So he couldn't pull it off in turn 3, and you were able to force turn 4 - a good sign. You also only lost by 2 objectives. You also had a fairly close game with a bit of luck on your side with that artillery not rallying, and you were able to go toe to toe with some really ugly formations (Shadowswords, Roughriders, Tank Co, and Manticores) - until you respond, I'm thinking you may have even had some other options that you didn't leverage - you'll have to tell me if any of my suggestions above are valid to your game. Even if they weren't though, you lost and the game was enjoyable. That's huge! The IG, Black Legion, Orcs, and Eldar all all really fun to play in Epic. Tau wasn't quite there yet for me personally. I'm VERY pleased to hear you say the battle was enjoyable.

Thanks for the quick batrep of the new Tau WIP v4.2. A good list kick-off report!

I think that experienced Tau players will get a lot more out of the list than I did in that game, but it did give me quite a few ideas. ?I also think that if I hadn?t thrown everything into one or two tactics I could have done better.

Nevertheless it was fairly close and that nearly always makes for an enjoyable game. ?And I will propose that it shows that at least the Piranha formation can be useful (without being game breaking) and the stingray formation is worth its points (but possibly best used without the extra stingrays).

Author:	Tactica [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 12:10 am ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Cw, I know it was only one game, but since you tried several of the new units and got to see some across multipe turns... 1) Was the increased price on the stingrays worth their payload vs. Infantry? 2) Did the Stingrays seem to fragile for their points paid - or considering they do make short work of no armour infantry - was that exchange OK/feel right? 3) You seem to indicate that the large pirahna light vehicle formation was fragile but worth it overall in the end, is that accurate? 4) You really didn't get to use the Moray very long, but clearly your opponent considered it a threat. We know they are fragile. That is typically what happens to mine when I field a single model in a formation. It's the risk you run with a single 3 wound formation I suppose. I'll wait till you get a few more games under your belt with this formation. 5) Swordfish contingent - I was glad to see you give this a whirl, did the points work for the yield? I assume the formation was basically balanced since its composed of existing units that already play nice together and have been proven - still, just curious what you thought of them. Did they do the anti-AT target job well enough or as intended? Cheers,

Author:	clausewitz [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 1:08 am ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Tactica, 1) The stingrays performed well @ 250 points I thought, but I dont think I should have added the extra 2 from the upgrade. I think I would be tempted to try them with Piranhas, for increased bulk and for a little AT fire (since a great deal of infantry have their AV transports I dont think the firepower will be wasted). But thats a matter of army composition rahter than an issue with the stingray cost. With the AP firepower they have it should be posiible to get the points back on them most times. 2) They were rather fragile, but no more so than most artillery/support type formations. Thats seems a fair balance of firepower versus fragility. 3) I thought the Piranhas were worthwhile. I have been discussing them a little with Nealhunt on another thread. He thinks they might be too good. They performed fairly well for me, but I did need to position my army in such a way as to make good use of them, as well as invest in the right units to have the markerlights available. Perhaps in larger games where you could field multiple formations of them and you have loads of markerlights all over the place it might be too good, but I am, as yet, unconvinced that there is a problem. 4) As mentioned previously I agree that I probably wasted the Moray a bit (though it was slightly unfortunate not to survive). 5) I used the Swordfish in combination with the Piranhas to shoot at the tank company. Without MW/TK shots a tank company needs to be hit with a lot of AT fire to make a dent, the Swordfish contingent killed 4 Leman Russ before they were broken. The only thing is I'm not sure if I would ever take the Hammerhead Contingent instead of the Swordfish (very small points difference for more firepower).

Author:	Tactica [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 4:03 am ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Your point 5) answer concerns me then. NH has the same concern. Although I with you on the piranhas, I think point 5 is a conern in need of address. HH contingent is meant to be the main battle tank line. It should not be forfeit to the swordfish contingent. I've proposed a rectification for point 5) in the Swordfish thread. I'd like you to take a look and wiegh in since you are the only one to have seen them in action as of yet. Thanks for the elaboration on the feedback, very helpful indeed.

Author:	clausewitz [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
Thanks for the elaboration on the feedback, very helpful indeed.

No problem, glad to be involved. My thanks for your feedback. I was a little apprehensive posting a battle report that I'd lost... but at least I lasted till turn 4..*looks at Jaldon

Author:	Tactica [ Tue Nov 01, 2005 6:13 pm ]
Post subject:	Battle Report Tau V IG
I was a little apprehensive posting a battle report that I'd lost...

Heck no!! Don't be apprehensive. We need both the good and the bad game result feedback! If you lost because of accident - fine, if you won because your list over powered - fine, if you don't know what happen but had one heck of a good time - we need to know that too! Its all helpful and the more playtest batreps we get from different groups with different playstyles, the better! Keep 'em coming! I'm glad you posted it!

but at least I lasted till turn 4..*looks at Jaldon

*
ROFLMAO

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