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Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau

 Post subject: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Fri Jul 17, 2020 12:21 am 
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Alright, so we've finally got this put together. V1.0 of the "Sandbox" Sept, a list for build your own Tau.

This is a full list of current units from the 3rd Sphere Expansion list, Vior'la, and a couple new experimental units from old lists and some new ideas.

The idea behind this list is not to reach NERC approval. It's not even really designed with tournament play in mind. It's supposed to offer an opportunity to people who want full access to the complete catalogue of Tau units in games with their friends, or in narrative play.

With that intent, the list isn't broken up into Core and Support formations or with any sort of limitations to unlock other formations. Point values are given for formations of units as well as an effort to offer upgrades if you want to attach the units to another formation. For example, this should allow you to include two Railheads with four Crisis suits, or a formation of Remora Stealth Drones paired with a Riptide.

For the units that are established, I've tried to keep the base formation size and upgrade costs as close as possible to the tested lists, for balance purposes.

With the new experimental units, their stats are by no means set in stone. This is more of an opportunity to test out their stats, give feedback, and hopefully they'll make their way into future tournament lists.

I hope people enjoy the more DIY nature of the list and that this speaks to the non-tournament players in NetEA, you are not forgotten! Please give your feedback on the list, new stat lines, spelling, missed units, etc.

Enjoy!


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Sandbox Sept.pdf [459.91 KiB]
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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:17 pm 
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Yes! Finally seeing this happening in other factions. All about this!

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2020 3:01 am 
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jimmyzimms wrote:
Yes! Finally seeing this happening in other factions. All about this!

Thanks Jimmy! I remember we talked about this idea when I first became AC. Took a minute, but finally got it put together.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:49 am 
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I noticed the broadsides have a 90cm range on here, Is that intended ?


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Mon Jul 27, 2020 2:33 pm 
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Cyguns wrote:
I noticed the broadsides have a 90cm range on here, Is that intended ?


Good catch! That should be 60cm. I'll update the doc.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:16 am 
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And I thought I was finished, going to have to track down some Knarloc riders now...
Did you have a Greater Knarloc model in mind? Might have to do a quick size comparison of mine as I feel it might be more of a 'Dawn of War' style beast.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:15 pm 
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My Greater Knarloc says 'SQWARK!' - (link will have to do as I can't get this image to upload to the forum for some reason) https://photos.app.goo.gl/qA2b23SVWhyx93Li8

He's converted from a limited release Kroot Bird. I've also seen Knarlocs on Shapeways, though pricey as is the norm there.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Fri Aug 28, 2020 4:37 pm 
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Tastyfish wrote:
And I thought I was finished, going to have to track down some Knarloc riders now...
Did you have a Greater Knarloc model in mind? Might have to do a quick size comparison of mine as I feel it might be more of a 'Dawn of War' style beast.


I'm going the same route as GlynG, converting the Kroot Bird. There's an ebay vendor who sells what I'm assuming are recasts since they always show up. I also plan on using some 40k kroot hound heads.

Shapeways or 3d printing is always an option, though I don't think I've seen anything yet myself. I'll be trying some of Microworld Games' scifi dino line + green stuff to convert the knarloc riders.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:28 pm 
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I'm not sure if this will work but here are mine off Shapeways, they're just ever so slightly larger than a Hammerhead

Great Knarlocs:
From the front
Top down with Hammerheads

They're not that badly priced as far as Epic Tau go - as long as you're not looking to make an army around them. Here's they are on Shapeways at £25 for three at the moment.

Which actually puts them at £2 cheaper than some of Kroot birds I've seen which come out around £10 after currency conversion.

Ruleswise, I think the gun on top is perhaps a little much? In 40K it's pretty much like a multilaser or an autocannon, and whilst I can see uping the gun to make it more like a tank with this profile it's not going to be deploying with the Kroot garrisons but back with the Tau (so not part of the raiding party). What about making them as smaller upgrades to Kroot formations, and perhaps give them infiltrate as ambush hunters?

As for Hazard Suits, I think I'd also like to see the other weapon options. Perhaps not as a mixed team per base like the Crisis suits but designed to be really close - though I think it's mostly the 15cm BP1 Pulse sub-munition variant I'd love to see.
It's a fairly unusual profile outside of aircraft (though a few things like Biotitans and Great unclean ones have a beefier version) but could be interesting as a FF leveller without actually being FF. You'd possibly think twice about bunching up close to a Tau formation, readying to assault with as many units as you could, if there was a formation with these guys nearby.

But then I'm also definitely in the Tau should have some blasts, but not artillery camp, so everyone is still playing the same game (feels a bit 'gamey' when you've got different coherency rules against some armies rather than others based on the weapon abstractions we've picked) - I know there's a lot of people who feel differently, but that seems to me to be the point of the Sandbox Sept?

Could also see swapping out the Burst cannons for an Small arms, MW for Fusion Cascades (they're 2D3 shots but only 12" range), but that's just a thought I've had as I'm typing this, rather than something properly thought through.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 3:20 pm 
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Hey Tastyfish,

Thanks for the reply! I took a look at your Shapeways. I'll def be picking up some of the Greater Knarlocs plus a few plague tanks for my Death Guard.

I open to testing different stats for all of the experimental units. The numbers for the Greater Knarloc would pulled from rough fluff descriptions. Essentially tanks with a minor ranged attack, but really thriving in CC where they could tear open a Leman Russ tank.

For the Hazard suit, I took the stat line that had been used already in prior testing. I think it feels like a more specific close range attack for the Tau. I'd be concerned about the power of a BP variant, and not just for BP reasons. Sub-munition ammo on the hammerhead doesn't use BP, so that'd create weapon inconsistencies for stat lines. Plus, a potential BP4 or even 6 with that speed and tau jump packs could just be a nightmare for opponents to deal with. I was also trying to stay away from more MW in a list that already has growing access to it with some of Vior'la heavier suits. But as I said, not of the experimental units are in lists yet, so they're here to test different ideas and give feedback for. These are preliminary ideas and my thoughts behind them.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 8:04 pm 
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Just to clarify, it's not my Shapeways, those were just some of my Knarlocs that I ordered off that designer's shop.

I get your point on the Hazards (I'd forgotten the critical jump to an extra template at 4BP), though I think there is a difference between a single Hammerhead submunition shot and six large templates from a squad.
Not that I'm saying things work this way, but if you actually work out the size, assuming that one 40K inch is around 5mm in Epic at 15cm - six large blast markers would cover a larger space than a the epic barrage template does (at 58cm2 over 43cm2).

What would you think if they were an upgrade? So you can't buy a squad of 4, but can add 2 to a squad of Hazards.


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 5:30 pm 
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A few thoughts. Some units are marked with “*” as to show these units are not on any approved list, all the heavy suits XV104, XV109 etc , in short from the Vior’la are not marked , but that list is ofc far into hopefully soon enter approved status. But my eyes where drawn to the XV9 hazard suit, this unit also lacks a “*”, where is it from ?

I’m playing with ideas for a new Tau list at the moment , and I’m going to use this list as a starting point.

One thing that’s slightly bothering me, is the multitude of stats for “burst cannons” , many units carry them, the Stealth suits on current lists fire them at AP4+ D 15cm ,but a Piranha with burst cannons pop them of at AP5+ 15cm , so do the Hammerhead Rails.
(However, if you go to the Tournament pack, they still have “smart Missile systems” instead )

Stormsurges also carry burst cannons , they wield them at AP5+ like other viechles but here at a range of 30cm.
Now XV9s with twin linked burst cannons they are on par with stealth suits “Silenced Burst Cannons” at AP4+ Disrupt, but as XV9s are twin linked maybe they ought to even be a bit more powerful? Remora drones also carry twin linked burst cannons , but theirs don’t have disrupt.

Like I said, this is only a slight bother , and for units already on third sphere and Vior’la maybe it’s too much a bother for too little a thing.
But moving forward , I’d like me , you like playing around with new lost ideas , should we try and reach some kind of consensus on for example XV9s and Remoras Twin linked burst cannons? Personally I think the stealth drones should simply pick up the D, so they are both AP4+ Disrupt.

As a finishing note , I just want to add, great job on putting together this little sandbox list. It’s very inspiring to look at it and imagine dropping some of the units on new lists and possibly give them a little extra twist.
I just wanted to give a little nudge on these highly flexible Burst cannons , all for the greater good. ;)

Cheers


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2020 7:42 pm 
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Here’s a few ideas I’m brooding on for the XV9s

XV9 hazard

Inf
Speed 25cm (Tau jet packs )
CC 6+
FF 4+
Armour 3+ (Tau deflector shield)


Twin linked Burst cannon AP4+ D. 15cm

Fusion Cascades 2xAP5+/AT5+ L 15cm

Twin phased Ion guns MW5+ 15cm
(Small arms MW, EA+1)

Pulse submunition rifle BP1 , IC 15cm



Formations:

XV9s

4 XV9 hazard suits , Shas’el 225p (250p)

2 x Twin Linked Burst cannons

All Units may replace one Burst cannon with a Pulse submunition rifle for +25p to the formation cost



XV9-01s

3 XV9-01 suits , 2 Gundrones 250p

2x Fusion cascades


XV9-04s

4 XV9-04 250p

2xTwin phases Ion guns MW5+ 15cm


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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:00 pm 
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Cyguns - thanks for the heads up on the burst cannons! I'll go back through the lists and try and sync them all with 3rd sphere. I know there should be two types (twin linked and single) but I'll try and figure out where the Disrupt originated. It sounds like it may be unique to stealth suits.

For Hazard suits, I know there's different loadouts, but I'd envisioned coming up with one stat line for now, similar to the original XV8 in 3rd sphere, then the rise of an alternate in Vior'la. I want to stay away from an infantry unit having the option to equip different load outs, and keep the variants tied into a specific list. That'll help different lists have more individual flavor.

Another thing to keep in mind, the stat line of the XV8 has drones "build" into it already. I don't know how that might impact the stats your came up with the XV9-01.

Glad you're enjoying the sandbox list! I think it can really get a lot of mileage for people looking to play more scenario or narrative play than the tournament lists allow.

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 Post subject: Re: Sandbox Sept - Build Your Own Tau
PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2021 11:11 pm 
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Burst Cannons

So I went in and looked into the BC issues and it looks like there's three types:

Burst Cannons w/Drones (Hammerheads and Piranha) AP5+
Silenced Burst Cannons (Stealth suits) AP5+, Disrupt
Twin Linked Burst Cannons (Fliers) AA6+

I assume they were developed this way to try and fit the 40k stats for different items. I'd like to try and limit any new stat lines to fit with these categories. The exception would be a ground based twin linked burst (hazard suits.) With twin linked, the value drops one, so I'd see those come in at AP4+.

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