Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 

Tau Jump Packs + Transport

 Post subject: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:53 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:08 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Atlanta, GA
Is it legal for crisis suits to disembark out of a transport, say an Orca or Manta, carry out a planetfall/advance/double and then use their tau jump packs to make it back into base contact with said transport for an immediate embark. It would probably be a bit risky with an Orca, but the Manta option sounds really good right about now. You can't really touch the crisis suits and the Manta practically doubles in hitting power at the cost of one activation essentially. It does seem a bit gamey though lol. I've been looking over the rules and all I can find is below leading me to believe it is perfectly legal. Any thoughts?

Quote:
3.1.3 Transport War Engines: For a formation to mount up in this way the units that are getting on board must be able to move into base contact with the war engine during their action.


Quote:
Tau Jet Packs: Tau jet packs follow all the rules for Jump Packs. Additionally, units with Tau jet packs are allowed to make an additional move of 10cm at the end of an advance, double or march order. The extra move is allowed whether or not the unit fires and takes place after any firing. This extra move may be in any direction and follows all the normal movement rules, so unit coherency and zones of control must be adhered to as usual.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:01 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 332
I routinely plan to do this but find it rather difficult to pull off.
It works easily with a Manta on the table, with Crisis Suits jumping in and out.
Them getting out on one of the move segments after/if the Manta breaks.
But then you are putting a pretty heavy points package together into one formation.
And do not get the coordinated fire from the Shas'el / Shas'o since it is the Manta
that is activating. Also sometimes seems a was of a relatively rare Init 1+ formation.
You need to get the Manta up close and personal which is a relative risk for the probable BTS.

It does not work with Air Landing / Air Assault. The Tau Jet Pack rule only allows the extra
10 cm move if you advance, double or march - none of them are "Ground Attack".

The Planetfall option does not involve the transport actually moving, it is the spacecraft. So I
think you could leave the Crisis Suits in an Orca, get that to "advance", (or Double? or March?)
and have the Crisis Suits get back in. Rather better in that case to get the Suits out as part of
the Planetfall, have the Crisis Suits call co-ordinated fire, sustain fire the Orca, then move-shoot
and Tau Jet Pack the Crisis Suits back into the Orca.

Overall I find the Crisis Suits relatively fragile units/formations that die very fast and have found
the above Manta battle taxi operation about the only way they "earn their points". Actually I
really mean just survive. Hate losing my elite troops/commanders, . . . seems anti-fluff, . . .
rather than gamey NOT to have Crisis Suits bouncing in and out Mantas.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2016 7:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:08 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Atlanta, GA
Quote:
And do not get the coordinated fire from the Shas'el / Shas'o since it is the Manta
that is activating.


Since the crisis suits are activating with the Manta as a single formation anyways doesn't that make it a moot point? Although I guess you are going for the sustained fire on the Manta.

It's definitely good to know that I can use that tactic with the crisis suits and manta though (and to a lesser extend with the orcas although I find that very risky). I figured being up close and personal with the manta and crisis is worth the risk. Although perhaps I'm overestimating the sturdiness of the manta, seeing as I haven't actually used a Manta yet. I defer to your experience there. In either case I am running Vior'la so it only makes sense to get in someones face! :P

And yes I agree that crisis suits can be fragile. In general my strategy is to get my markerlight formations into range and then follow up with a ground attack with one orca filled with crisis suits. I try to attack an isolated/strategic formation and then hopefully get the chance to do it in the following turns.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 3:30 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 332
Redgeran wrote:
Although I guess you are going for the sustained fire on the Manta.

Park the Manta say 25 cm from the enemy, allows it to markerlight. Coodinated fire from the Crisis Suits (Shas'el) allows them to move-shoot-jetpack, the Manta to sustain fire (as you say) AND give you an extra blast marker AND gets the Suits within 15 cm MW range whilst keeping the Manta a little further away.

The Manta is relatively robust. It generally breaks moderately before it loses is last DC so gets a chance to run away. It is however hard to hide, always popped up. And I lose the Deflector Shield ridiculously often - it is much more vulnerable then. Nice that is never just explodes on you so you can pretty much rely on getting passengers out on move one of the two when it breaks.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Sun Mar 27, 2016 7:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2543
Location: UK
Well hang on, units can dismount at the end of the war engine's move and may not take their own action afterwards - though they can shoot as part of the war engine's action. Similarly, units can embark on a war engine during their own move, but then the war engine cannot take an action itself afterwards.

Alternatively, you also get a free disembark after planetfalling (done as part of the spaceship's action). So you could, for example, planetfall, disembark the crisis, retain to coordinated fire, sustaining with the manta and then advancing with the crisis and using their jet pack move to embark on the manta.

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 4:36 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 2:08 pm
Posts: 243
Location: Atlanta, GA
Thanks for pointing that out Kryt. Looked a little closer and yes the crisis don't get an action if they stay inside the Manta, meaning can only shoot or assault if the Manta activates. Your second example thankfully still allows for the turtle strategy! :)


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:19 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 332
Kyrt wrote:
Well hang on, units can dismount at the end of the war engine's move and may not take their own action afterwards - though they can shoot as part of the war engine's action. Similarly, units can embark on a war engine during their own move, but then the war engine cannot take an action itself afterwards.


As you say the war engine's passengers do not get their own activation. However the war engine and passengers are "treated as a single formation" until the action is completely resolved. So if the war engine activates with a Move, Double or March then the passengers were treated as a single formation that was given such an order and so the Tau Jet Pack rule is active.

Quote:
3.1.3. Formations that dismount in this way may not take an action in the turn they dismount, but are allowed to either shoot or fight in an assault if the war engine that was transporting it is able to shoot or assault. In both cases, the war engine and the transported units are treated as a single formation until the shooting attack or assault has been resolved. The war engine and the formation that disembarked are treated as being separate formations once the war engine has completely resolved its action.


OK, you could also read it that once the shooting is over the war engine's activation is completely resolved. But I'd still say the passengers are being treated as a single formation so it is not over until, not the fat lady, but the Shas'o/Shas'el sings.

Incidentally I also allow the passengers to dis-embark on the first move segment of a Double action and then to move as part of the second move segment - on the grounds that they are being treated as a single formation. Plan on continuing to do so until if gets FAQed the other way, . . .

Given the command deck on a Manta - where the Shas'o and/or Ethereal would probably stay throughout the 'activation' - the lack of coordinated fire and command benefits has always seemed slightly un-fluffy. Character upgrade for a Manta is a preferred option, . . .


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Wed Mar 30, 2016 4:10 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Tue Feb 22, 2011 11:43 pm
Posts: 2543
Location: UK
Yes but if you look what I was replying to, you said you could have the manta sustain and the crisis advance/double, placing 2 BMs for coming under fire. You can only do that if the crisis are not inside the manta at the start of the action, and you would also have to use the manta's action before the crisis. You could however planetfall, disembark, coordinate fire (first manta then crisis), but obviously this risks a retain and if you fail the crisis are outside.

If the crisis are inside the manta at the beginning then it's a totally different mechanic - one that does not involve coordinated fire, but also doesn't work if the manta sustains. You simply activate the transport WE, if it moves the crisis can disembark, and then you carry on as if they are part of the same formation. As for whether they can use jet packs, I don't see why not. You might question whether they are allowed to re-embark since they are supposed to only do this during "their own action" but IMO this is the same situation as consolidation moves, which is covered in the FAQ (they can, but the WE doesn't get its own consolidation move).

_________________
Kyrt's Battle Result Tracker (forum post is here)
Kyrt's trade list


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tau Jump Packs + Transport
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 3:15 am
Posts: 332
The reply to the reply to the reply, . . . .

Yes, I completely agree with your summary.
On with the big battle taxi operations with Manta(s).


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 9 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net