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Tau Fio'Ka - SUPERSEDED BY XAR'KA list

 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:04 am 
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Dobbsy wrote:
Jstr19 wrote:
Not sure you quite understand how Support Craft works. If your opponent can see the Moray the Moray can see his formation. It is possible to hide Support Craft under the rule. It's difficult but it is possible. I have very few problems with the support craft rule. Seriously try using the Manta in the new list its pretty good.

I understand. However, If the enemy is hiding in your turn you can't see it so when his turn comes he can move out to shoot at you. When you're always exposed to all enemy fire with a fairly naff shield and everything has a chance to knock you out of the sky while the Titans/WE you're vehicle is supposed to be firing on can hide behind woods and buildings, the lifespan of a support craft is fairly short. Planetfall seems to be one saving grace on Support craft but then you're forced to spend more points on a spacecraft thus reducing ground forces and as we all know Tau require numbers to work so, yeah, IMO Support Craft is naff.


Have you used the Manta in the current list. It's actually very good. Its difficult to kill, a beast in an engagement and can now hide. Planet fall frankly is a waste of its abilities. I have used my Manta list in about a dozen games 3-4 of them against marines and I have not lost a single game yet. Quite frankly if your opponent hides his TK/AT resources put the support craft on O/W I do that quite often. My concerns with the Manta are more to do with the Deflector shield and price than the support craft rule.

As an aside it is now my considered opinion that Tau rely on speed, range and exploiting the victory point system (something the list is almost as good at as the AMTL) more than numbers to work.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.1
PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 12:41 am 
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Ulrik wrote:
How would upping the HH formations to 6 units (+2 upgrades) affect things?

Yep definitely. :) I've adopted E&C's idea of 6 base, +2 and +4 optionally for v0.2. The cost of HH formations now starts at 300. Hence my point about some cheaper formations being fine.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:54 pm 
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Alrighty, I've updated the list to v0.2 in the first post. Should it be v1.0???

Changes:
I capitulated and added the Moray... ::) (I still don't want it but, hey...)
Added a +2 or +4 HH upgrade option
Added the optional Turret types for HH - Twin Plasma Rifles, Twin Missile pods
Added an optional Barracuda to the squadron as a trial.
Added the Commander upgrade to the Scorpionfish only. (Giving it to Air caste formations seemed counterintuitive<shrug>).
Removed the Stingrays
Removed Pathfinders
Changed the Mechanised Cadre into a core formation that includes Hammerheads as part of the base accompanied by Fire Warriors/DF.
Changed the Network Drone upgrade name to a Command node which is more in keeping with the 40K designation for such.
Bumped the Stealth group back up to 6 units and 250 points
Changed the optional 50/50 recon design made it 6 Tetras and added a "replace 2 Tetras with 2 Piranhas" upgrade instead.
Reduced the Sentry Drone network to 4 turrets at 150 points. They now have 5+ armour (not sure on this last one yet though for a 4 unit Immobile formation)
Changed the formations allowed the Gun Drones (the Infantry basically)

Hope this is more to people's liking.

Cheers all


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:00 pm 
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Quote:
Added an optional Barracuda to the squadron as a trial.

Why mess with a known balanced formation?

The rest seem like fine changes.

1-2 Scorpionfishes in a formation ; I doubt anyone will ever take 2 scorpionfishes in a single formation. Perhaps look at what I did with Scorpionfishes in my proposal.

Gun Drones upgrade is never going to be selected (Not that it tends to be in the mech inf list either).

Hammerhead upgrade, might want to do 2 for 100pts or 4 for 175pts.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:18 pm 
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Evil and Chaos wrote:
Quote:
Added an optional Barracuda to the squadron as a trial.

Why mess with a known balanced formation?

The rest seem like fine changes.

1-2 Scorpionfishes in a formation ; I doubt anyone will ever take 2 scorpionfishes in a single formation. Perhaps look at what I did with Scorpionfishes in my proposal.

Gun Drones upgrade is never going to be selected (Not that it tends to be in the mech inf list either).

Hammerhead upgrade, might want to do 2 for 100pts or 4 for 175pts.

BCs used to be 3 aircraft and the current ones just never perform all that well in the hybrid model. Like I said - trial ;)

How is your SF design different to mine E&C? You have 1 SF and give it a possible upgrade of 1 SF. Mine is buy 1 or 2 Scorpionfish. I'm missing something here...

Yeah I didn't want to ditch GDs altogether and I'd like to be able to field my 4 GD units somewhen :)

Missed that HH upgrade cost change! Thanks for pointing it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force
PostPosted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Quote:
How is your SF design different to mine E&C? You have 1 SF and give it a possible upgrade of 1 SF. Mine is buy 1 or 2 Scorpionfish. I'm missing something here...

2nd Scorpionfish is cheaper at 175pts. Otherwise you might as well just get two singles instead of one combined formation (Warhound Titan syndrome).

Also, available to Hammerhead formations too.

Might even push the upgrade down to 150pts TBH.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:54 am 
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Hey guys - I am having problems downloading the list. Is it on hold? I'd like to give it a try - am currently using 24 Hammers in my 3K 6.4 list which seems to be working, but the other units sound interesting.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 10:03 am 
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Wiki site is undermaintenance/down permanently. You can get the list from the Army Compendium atm.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:16 am 
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Edit:Gah! My lovely formatting! It was fine in the preview - honest!

In the meantime I have roughed out my own idea of an Armoured Formation list. Most is based on 6.4, there aren’t any units that aren’t in 6.4 as I don’t know what they are. I haven't touched points values as these are pretty balanced as I see them.

SPECIAL RULES – As 6.4 plus:
Stealth Fields – Armoured formations enjoy the support of the Earth Caste and as such have the best protection they can. They are fitted with devices such as Decoy Launchers and Disruption Pods which make them harder to target at long range:
Rule – Non War Engine vehicles in the open get the -1 to hit modifier (but no cover save) as though they were in area terrain. They receive no additional benefit if they are already in cover (doesn’t stack).

CORE FORMATIONS
Formation Units Upgrades
Manta 1 Manta Supreme Commander
Hammerheads 4 Hammerheads 2 – 6 Hammerheads, Skyray

SUPPORT FORMATIONS
Formation Units Upgrades
Pathfinders 2 Devilfish, 4 Pathfinders -
Recon (as per 6.4) -
Skysweep (as per 6.4) -

AUXILIARY FORMATION (Up to 1/3rd may be spent here)
Formation Units Upgrades
Barracuda 2 Barracuda
Mech Fire Warriors 6 Fire Warriors, 3 Devilfish
Orca 1 Orca Crisis formation, Fire Warriors
0-1 Spacecraft (as per 6.4)
Tiger Shark 2 Tigersharks Drones as per 6.4
Tiger Shark AX-1-0 2 Tiger Shark AX-1-0

I have included a profile change for Hammerhead Ion Cannons: Range 60, AP5, AT5, Ignore Cover. I felt the Armoured formations needed a way to strike at dug in Infantry and to do this reliably at long range would supply an interesting dynamic to the weapon. It may not be canon, but the Ion Cannon needs all the help it can get.

Designers notes:
I wanted a strong focus on battletanks but to have the option of supporting infantry. By adding in such things as Fire Warriors and Crisis into support they are then competing with Air Caste, meaning you have to have a good investment in the core units. All but the Manta are fast so the playstyle should be fluid, and the flexibility in the Hammerhead formation sizes means they won't badly lose the Activation war that seems so crucial to many playstyles. The list also gives a good reason to take all 3 varients of the Hammerhead. I might have to add a commander-type option to the Hammerhead upgrades. Dunno, maybe Leader and Coordinated Fire for 50 points?

I added the Stealth Fields rule for 2 reasons. Firstly because the Hammerhead formations are pretty weak to use in that kind of Blitzkreig style and thats what I wanted to do. Secondly because in 40K the disruption pod has (currently) exactly the same effect as being hull down, and at 5 points (out of about 180) you'd be pretty crazy not to take it.
The Manta as core I think works when there are so many other armoured targets about. It means it can be played slightly more aggressively, with the possibility of using 2 (though I doubt that would be a common option). I would like to come up with a variant Manta, more to add character than anything else. If anyone has
any ideas I'd love to hear them.
On the other hand the list loses a couple of neat tricks such as Stealth teleporting and resiliant Garrisons. I think both of these mean you have to play the manoeuvre game better.

Anyway, would love for people to try it and let me know what they found.

M


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 2:36 pm 
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individual PDF attached at bottom of first post


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:59 am 
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Hi. On what cadre are Piranhas an available upgrade? Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:10 am 
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Sorry, sounds like you have the 0.1version. I've added the Army Compendium Tau section so you can access the 0.2 version.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:36 am 
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Oh :( .

I actually liked the 0.1 as it suited the collection of Tau models I have better. Just out of curiousity, what cadre formation had Piranhas as an upgrade on the 0.1? Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Wed Apr 03, 2013 7:35 am 
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The Tetras.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Fio'Ka Armoured Strike Force v 0.2 (Experimental)
PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 6:24 am 
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I'm reviving this topic from April to ask about one unit - the Moray.
I would like to include the Moray in the Vior'la Tau list that I am working on, and have been playtesting it with a lower powered version (single ion cannon shot, single burst cannon, no Twin missile pods) at a 300pt price.

Since I don't want to re-invent the wheel and have a second model with the same name and a different profile I'd like to ask if the version in this list sufficiently was playtested and far enough along in the process to be used as the default profile for a Moray? If so, I'll replace my version with this.

MORAY - War Engine DC3
Armour 5+ Reinforced Tau Deflector Shield
Support Craft, Planetfall, Fearless
Critical Hit Effect: Tau Deflector Shield is destroyed; further critical hits destroy the Moray

The Flo'Ka version 0.2 in this thread:
[] Heavy Rail Cannon 90cm MW3+ TK( D3), FxF
[] 2x Ion Cannon 60cm AP4+/AT5+, FxF
[] 2x Manta Burst Cannons 30cm AP5+/AA6+
[] Twin Missile Pods 45cm AT5+/AT6+
[] Seeker Missile 90cm AT6+ Guided Missile

Vior'la Moray for comparison

[] Heavy Rail Cannon 90cm MW3+ TK(D3), FxF
[] Ion Cannons 60cm AP4+/AT5+, FxF
[] Manta Burst Cannons 30cm AP5+/AA6+
[] Seeker Missile 90cm AT6+, Guided Missiles

This has playtested well as being less powerful but also less of a glasshammer (the more expensive Flo'ka version has more firepower and weapons, but is destroyed as easily as the less expensive Vior'la version). As mentioned though I'd be happy to change it to the Flo'ka version for the sake of standardisation and simplicity.

Thanks!
Matt


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