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Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=21640		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  EpicBattleBaggz [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Question to the Overlords of Tau...

Why haven't these been included in the army lists? Too many air choices already? Not workable? Boring?
Author:  Dobbsy [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
From memory, too many options in the main list already and just one more thing to balance in the list which would've dragged out completion of it. It could go in later lists though IIRC.
Author:  Parintachin [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:19 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Kinda need Vespids too; but at least there are no models for those ..
Author:  MikeT [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Hmm, what would Vespas be? 30cm jump pack troops 6+ save, 4+ ff, 6+ cc?
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
MikeT wrote:
4+ ff,

I wish!
If Crisis Suits only gets 5+ FF, there's no way anything else will be better than that.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Onyx wrote:
MikeT wrote:
4+ ff,

I wish!
If Crisis Suits only gets 5+ FF, there's no way anything else will be better than that.

IIRC Vespids are probably deserving of 4+ FF, they have good guns in 40k on a par with Storm Troopers, with a really short range.
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
When they were in the list, Vespids had FF4+.

They were removed and slated for inclusion in varient lists.
Author:  MikeT [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Onyx wrote:
MikeT wrote:
4+ ff,

I wish!
If Crisis Suits only gets 5+ FF, there's no way anything else will be better than that.


Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of engagements, and prefer shooting attacks. This is partially represented by lower than expected ff values. Vespids have no such hangups and are specifically equipped with short range rapid fire marine killer guns.

My main concern with something like Vespids would be that they'd potentially be invalidating a designed list weakness, though a specific tau auxiliaries list might be interesting.....
Author:  zombocom [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
To be clear, the "main" Tau list is now complete and very unlikely to have new units added. Variant lists are another matter.
Author:  CyberShadow [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
MikeT wrote:
Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of engagements, and prefer shooting attacks. This is partially represented by lower than expected ff values. Vespids have no such hangups and are specifically equipped with short range rapid fire marine killer guns.

My main concern with something like Vespids would be that they'd potentially be invalidating a designed list weakness, though a specific tau auxiliaries list might be interesting.....


Which was exactly why they were removed initially. In essence, the Tau auxiliary did its job too well. The Tau use them to cover for weaknesses in their army, which they achieve in EA and take away some of the character of a Tau force as it drops its defining weakness.

The Remora was not included partly because it was released at a time when the list was stabilising and another inclusion would have stirred the waters, partly because it doesn't really have a defined role in an EA force aside from being cool, and partly because the Tau have several excellent aircraft choices anyway and the Remora was more designed to support AI than EA.
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:37 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
MikeT wrote:
Onyx wrote:
MikeT wrote:
4+ ff,

I wish!
If Crisis Suits only gets 5+ FF, there's no way anything else will be better than that.


Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of engagements, and prefer shooting attacks. This is partially represented by lower than expected ff values. Vespids have no such hangups and are specifically equipped with short range rapid fire marine killer guns.

Believe me, I'm WELL AWARE of how Tau play in Epic Armageddon ;) .
Have a look at the Tau forum over previous years for more information there.

And that should actually read "Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of close combat".
But anyway, no point in discussing this again as the 6.4 list is pretty much finished as zombocm mentioned.
Author:  GlynG [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Remora Drone Fighter - as long as neither you or your opponent is anal about strictly enforcing the infantry having 3-7 models per base rule, then these make excellent 'counts as' Stealth Suit proxies (it's what I'm doing with the 3 of mine that aren't on eBay). Assume their speed and advanced stealth means that most of the time anti-tank weapons miss them and it's spray fire from anti-personell weapons that is what kills them. Counting them as a stand of regular gun drones is another alternative too - as then you could use the Tigershark AX-2-2 as a regular Tigershark carrying gun drones.

Vespid - their guns are extremely short ranged at only 12" compared to 24" for most firefight. It's not an exact match but I'm inclined to 'counts as' Vespid as Kroot, abstracting that extremely close gun into CC instead of FF and their flight into infiltrate. Gun Drones could be an alternate good counts as. Tangentially, wasn't a company coming out with a 6mm flying alien that could make a good Vespid proxy? I swear I saw one relatively recently on here, but I can't remember who or where it was now.
Author:  MikeT [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Onyx wrote:
MikeT wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Believe me, I'm WELL AWARE of how Tau play in Epic Armageddon ;) .
Have a look at the Tau forum over previous years for more information there.

And that should actually read "Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of close combat".
But anyway, no point in discussing this again as the 6.4 list is pretty much finished as zombocm mentioned.



No, they're not fond of engagements, as in, the engage action. On your second point, of course there's a point in discussing it, not least of which is a possible variant list.
Author:  Evil and Chaos [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
Indeed, a number of variant lists were discussed in the past.

Notable, an Armoured list, and a Farsight (Battlesuit biased) list.

I could see Drone Fighters in an Armoured list, indeed I could see an Armoured list with a general focus on drones as being a good thing.
Author:  Onyx [ Wed Oct 26, 2011 1:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Remora Drone Stealth Fighters
MikeT wrote:
Onyx wrote:
Believe me, I'm WELL AWARE of how Tau play in Epic Armageddon ;) .
Have a look at the Tau forum over previous years for more information there.

And that should actually read "Tau (at epic scale) aren't fond of close combat".
But anyway, no point in discussing this again as the 6.4 list is pretty much finished as zombocm mentioned.


No, they're not fond of engagements, as in, the engage action. On your second point, of course there's a point in discussing it, not least of which is a possible variant list.

You're right, the present Epic Armageddon army list states that Tau don't like to do Engagements.
Of course, since an Engagement in Epic is (more or less) meant to represent a whole game of W40K, Tau at Epic scale should actually be very good at FF (whilst being rubbish at CC). The whole Tau don't like Engagements thing is merely a game related interpretation to help make the Tau different from other races (particularly the Eldar).

Tau don't like to waste resources (unless it's leaving Kroot behind to delay an advancing enemy - it's for the greater good and all... :D ). Committing to an Engagement is not a waste of resources. Getting into hand to hand combat with a superior foe is. Shooting the foe to pieces with a Pulse Rifle or Railgun (at FF range) is a perfect use of resources and fully backed up by pretty much all available Tau fluff (of which I have read almost all of it).

Tau are not afraid to assault an important defended position or to set up a firebase to hold a key area.

I'd take Vespids at 4+ FF for sure but just about anyone who knows about the Tau in 40K (or has read the fluff) might find the numbers a bit odd...
Do Vespids deserve a higher FF value than a Crisis Suit?

I'd like to see a Tau armour list developed one day as I still have several models to use as Moray gunships.

Mark_Logue and I experimented with using Remora Drones as airborne Marker Lights a few years ago. It was an interesting situation but might have been a bit unbalanced.
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