In the Beef Thread the use of Markerlights was mentioned several times. So i thouhgt i open a thread for them.

Markerlights can be fired under the same circumstances as any other shooting attack (eg broken and marching formations can’t use the Markerlight) but before any shooting takes play.

A formation with at least one unit in range and line of sight of a unit with Markerlights is considered to be marked.

So a direct Wh40k to Epic translation could look as the following:

Markerlights can be fired under the same circumstances as any other shooting attack (eg broken and marching formations can’t use the Markerlight) but before any shooting takes play.
A formation with at least one unit in range and line of sight of a unit with Markerlights is considered to be marked.
Each Markerlight can be used up to bestow ONE of the following abilities to ONE friendly unit (regardless if this unit is from the same formation which uses the Markerlight or another formation)against the targeted enemy formation. Multiple Markerlights can be stacked so putting a marker on the enemy formation for each Markerlight is recommended:
- add Ignore Cover to one shooting attack from a fiendly unit.
- add Disrupt to one shooting attack from a friendly unit.
- fire a Seeker Missile from a fiendly unit.
- improve one to hit roll by +1 for a shooting attack from a friendly unit.
Markerlight markers remain on the enemy formation until used up or if the targeted formation moves out of range of ALL Markerlights (including those of other formations). In the end phase all remaining Markerlight markers are removed.


But to make it simpler in Epic i wouldreword it so:

An enemy formation with at least one unit in range and line of sight of a unit with Markerlights whose formation carries out a Sustain action is considered to be marked.
A friendly formation which shoots at a marked enemy formation can choose ONE of the following option for all it's shoting attacks. All shooting attacks have to use the same option:
- add Ignore Cover.
- add Disrupt.
- enables the formation to fire it's Seeker Missile in addition to any other shooting attack.
- improve the to hit roll by +1 without the need of a Sustain action.

Thoughts?

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It seems to cover all the bases, but it just seems like too many options to choose from for an EPIC scale effect.

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Well then just:
- enables the formation to fire it's Seeker Missile in addition to any other shooting attack.
- improve the to hit roll by +1 without the need of a Sustain action.

Because that's what Markerlights do effectively: They guide Seeker Missiles and they improve the shooting of friendly units.

And to avoid that 90%+ of the Taus's army can sustain without a Sustain action i inlcuded that the formation which uses Markerlights (not the effect!) has to do a Sustain action.

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I have an alternative suggestion for Markerlight outlined here

The idea is that most main Tau weapon systems benefit from Markerlight, which improves the accuracy of the weapon at extreme ranges. To achieve this, the Tau make extensive use of Drone and Sentries sent forward in advance of the troops to identify and 'mark' targets.

Tau weapons that are linked to "Markerlight" systems have the accurate range of the relevant weapon increased by 50% and +2 added to the to-hit dice.

But to balance this out, obviously the normal stats would need to be reduced accordingly to those of equivalent IG or Eldar weapons:- 30cms, 40cms or 50cms maximum, while the to-hit values would be reduced by (2).


so for example the revised weapon stats for a HammerHead might be something like :-

Weapon . . . . . . . Range . . . .Firepower . . . . . Notes . . . .
Railgun . . . . . . .50cms . . . . AP6+/AT5+ . . . . . Markerlight Guided
 OR
Ion Cannon . . . 40cms . . . . AP6+/AT6+ . . . . . Markerlight Guided
Smart Missile . . 20cms . . . . AP6+ . . . . . . . . . Markerlight Guided, Ignore cover
Seeker Missile . . 60cms . . . . AT6+ . . . . . . . . . Markerlight Guided

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

While it's an ok proposal Ginger - and I applaud your ideas for change - I would ask if you have played the Tau list much at all(with or against)? I think you need to have a bit of experience with it before proposing such a radical change to Tau weaponry.

Sure the long ranges seem nasty but Tau tech also costs a fair amount and is fragile. Air and teleport assault are very nasty possibilities for the Tau and they only need to lose one critical formation before the rest of the army starts to break down very quickly. Tau don't have the staying power unless they can wither down the enemy with fire. My games have always shown that and a lot of my wins have come down to lucky rolls because it's been so close. I had to use 6 formations to kill one Reaver titan in one instance. Tau aren't the boogie man people keep making them out to be. They still need work, sure, but things just need a tweak not a complete re-write. If you tamper with weapon ranges then assault values need adjustment and we may as well re-write the list entirely if that's the case.

Just my two cents.

@Hena: Have you seen the recent Transformers movie? There the soldiers used a similar device as the Tau Marerlight to mark targets so that the A10s know at what they have to shoot. This increases accuracy (better to hit and better to circumvent cover) and the higher amount of hits disrupts enemy morale.
The only difference is that the Tau use this not only for aircrafts but for ground units too.

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The A10s didn't fire guided missiles. They used their gun to shoot at their target.
I see no difference.
The Markerlights provides exact target data to nearby friendly units.
Say a Hammerhead recieves data about an enemy vehicle behind a building. He can't actually see it but it is in range and because of the markerlight he knows its exact position and can fire right through the walls of the building (if it is only made of bricks or similar material of course)to hit the vehicle.

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Ranges in GWs games is a theme of its own. If you could shrink to the size of a WH40k model you would be able to throw a rock OVER the opposite table edge and still can expect to topple over a grot standing there

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Well guys, I guess this goes back to impressions I have read on the forum, and boils down to expectation (and no I have not had a great deal of experience playing with or against Tau). Part of the issue is that there does not seem to be a firm concensus on just what the Tau are supposed to be, how they fight (strengths and weakneses) and general philosophy etc. Quite frankly, I think the community would benefit greatly by restating the background in bald terms and then concentrating on the detail - because I am hearing a lot of 'interpretation' of some fairly basic principles.

However, one of the basic issues I have heard repeated often is that, while the Tau may be fragile their long range shooting is great, which results in a boring / predictable game: Tau sit on their baseline and it all depends on whether the enemy can close with them or not - if they get to assault range with Tau on foot, then it's all over - if the Tau army is mainly composed of skimmers, then even assaults can be hard to win. In this respect then there are strong parallels between the Tau and the Siegemasters.

The reasoning behind my suggestion is to try to make the game more interesting and demanding to both sides, and the theory goes something like this:-
1) Tau have Imperium style weaponry but make better use of technology to enhance the effectiveness.

2) Tau have weak to moderate armour so rely on technology to boost their 'point' defences.

3) Tau do not have artillery or Titans, so use technology to 'fill in' the gaps with modified units and weapons (though I have misgivings about the 'Support Craft' ability)

If my summary is correct, the theme here (and indeed the ideal) is to separate out the Technology element in the list so that it requires the Tau player to make effective use of the technology, while giving the opponent a means of defeating the Tau by removing that technology. In this respect there is a strong parallel with fortifications in the Siegemasters army - if you can winkle the defenders out then they die in droves. The Tau list already specifies Robotic drones and Markerlight etc as the "technology" element, I am merely suggesting that the existing stats also be split into the appropriate elements as well. Thus making the Tau average, or even below par without the commensurate technology.

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Thinking about it a bit further, this is essentially a boosted version of 'indirect fire', allowing the Tau increased accuracy (+1) in addition to sustaining, perhaps the ranges ought to be doubled if the target is markerlit.

The main difference from Indirect fire is the presence and location of the relevant Markerlight units, which means that this ability can be countered and so reduces the effectiveness of contentious units like the Manta and Moray and the "Support craft" ability - if the target is not markerlit, then it may well be out of range.  

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Hena, I am with BL regarding the way that Markerlight might affect 'dumb' munitions. Smart bombs already work in exactly this fashion, and I would expect similar Tau technology to be added to shells etc allowing the projectile to make small changes in its flight as it is guided onto the Markerlit target. The effect of this would be to make the weapon more accurate at longer ranges, hence the suggestion for both the boost in range and effectiveness. However I agree that this should only be given to Vehicle mounted weaponry.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

Another perspective might be that the markerlight aids the firer in aiming the Railgun / Ion gun, without which the gun is less accurate over such a long range.

The current rule for indirect fire requires the gun to be stationary to get the range for a barrage of shells to bracket a target. These weapons are firing a single projectile (or beam) where the slightest motion is likely to cause it to miss at such extreme ranges - unless the technology is tied in to assist

As Dobbsy implied in the other thread, we are really discussing the elements of indirect fire and we could simplify the list by reducing the stats of the relevant weapons to that mechanic. But I agree with you that it would remove a core feature of the list, and further, IMHO it could be adjusted to make the game more challenging to both sides.

How would this approach reduce the Tau to a "one trick pony"? The proposal would only apply to the relevant long range weapons allowing 'conventional' technology to have a greater reach in a manner similar to artillery and seems to fit the 'fluff' - at least as far as my poor understanding goes.

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Sir Hemry Newbolt

I think markerlights work ok at the moment, the problem is just that it's too easy to markerlight the enemy, thanks to the cheap turrets/drones etc.

Make markerlights rarer (FW only?), and they become a tactical challenge to use.

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