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V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Tactica

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 7:19 am

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

Heckler,

I'm willing to give this a go as posted.

I actually like it that the Seekers are back as well.

BTW: I don't like Arrowtooth. It makes the thing sound like a native american artifact rather than a hulking SHT laiden with ordinance which is supporting a fire disciplined force with its awe inspiring warheads of mass destruction! (heh arrowtooth... it sound cute... :angry:

)

Is there such thing as a STORM HAMMER, er-fish...

OK... seriously now - how about TRIDENT or Trident Super Heavy Missle Carrier (TSHMC)... plain and simple. Homage to the water, homage to the ordinance, and it does nasty damage.

LINK here's what it can do LINK

Cheers,

Rob

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Steele

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 8:10 am

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am
Posts: 423
Location: Duisburg , Germany

While I love the design so far, does the VML have a minimum striking distance? Similar to indirect Barrages? It would give it a minor drawback , but as a support vehicle it should have guarding troops around. And it would not appear as scary to other armies. :devil:

Although I would (again) like it to have the deflector!

Cheers!
Steele

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clausewitz

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:40 pm

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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

While I love the design so far, does the VML have a minimum striking distance? Similar to indirect Barrages?

Interesting idea, but I would prefer not to require another special rule for the unit.
Although I would (again) like it to have the deflector!

Any particular reason? ?I could see it being appropriate for the Deflector Shield to be kept for support craft.

how about TRIDENT or Trident Super Heavy Missle Carrier (TSHMC)... plain and simple.
Lol, TSHMC.. simple? ?Perhaps a poll for the name or does CyberShadow want to choose?
IIRC the suggestions so far are..
Scorpoinfish (duh)
Narwhal
Whiteshark
Arrowtooth
Trident Super Heavy Missile Carrier
ARES (Artillery Rocket System)
Stonefish

Any others?

[Edit: added additional suggestion(s)]

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Steele

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 1:59 pm

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am
Posts: 423
Location: Duisburg , Germany

@CW,

The deflector should IMHO be on every sht. As this is kinda pinnacle of defensive tech , why would the Tau ignore to put it on high asset warmachines? Or do they have the same massed amount of ressources the imperium has? I doubt that.

For a name : ARES ( Artillery Rocket System ). It is in use by todays armies, there they use a command vehicle and the MARS system. So it could be alltogether in our design.
And Ares represents the Greek God of War.

Cheers!
Steele

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Honda

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:13 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

Scorpoinfish (duh)
Narwhal
Whiteshark
Arrowtooth
Trident Super Heavy Missile Carrier

Any others?

I like Stonefish. It's one of the most poisonous fish in the sea. I also don't have a problem with "fish" names.

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clausewitz

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 3:30 pm

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Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 2:02 pm
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Location: Glasgow, Scotland

The deflector should IMHO be on every sht. As this is kinda pinnacle of defensive tech , why would the Tau ignore to put it on high asset warmachines? Or do they have the same massed amount of ressources the imperium has? I doubt that.

Ok, its a background logic perspective. I can understand that.

Perhaps it is not used on the because it is expected that it should not come under heavy fire, due to its ability to fire from out of LOS. In the same way that the Imperials dont load their artillery with armour. Just a suggestion.

From a game balance point of view the deflector will probably make the unit slightly more expensive. Is everyone happy with a more expensive, but more durable unit?

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Tactica

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:40 pm

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
Posts: 2241

So - do we have a v4.4 Scorpionfish then gents (or whatever its called)?

OK - Names... the least of my concerns, but if we have something that's going to work... then I guess naming it is the next issue.

So - heres my thoughts, in the following order,

1. ?I hate Arrowtooth (sorry)

2. ?Like Honda, 'fish names don't bother me.
3. ?I prefer Scorpionfish over any other 'fish options
4. ?If we go away from 'fish names, Trident is my next choice
5. ?Stonefish is not as bad as Arrowtooth, but not my favorite
6. I kinda like Kraken
7. Anything's better than Clownfish or Blowfish.

Cheers,

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Honda

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 6:52 pm

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Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm
Posts: 1891
Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

From a game balance point of view the deflector will probably make the unit slightly more expensive. Is everyone happy with a more expensive, but more durable unit?

This kind of depends on how much more expensive you're talking. Are we saying 250 with deflector shield, 225 without?

If so, I'd rather go without.

@Tactica

7. Anything's better than Clownfish or Blowfish.

You're right, that blows.

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CyberShadow

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 10:35 pm

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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore

OK. Sorry that I have been out of this thread for a short while (and a short while in the real world is a long time here!).

Some (fairly random) comments...

Since we are discussing the Scorpiongish only, and issues of speed consistancy/weapon load-out with the Dragonfish is redundent (addressing my initial comment). We should just go with something sensible and worry about the Dragonfish later.

Unit Role - Long range support. Not front line. Missile heavy. Something that advances after the first wave, securing the area and providing support as it does so. I see this unit as targetting formations of armour first and formost - not necessarily as a WE killer - with secondary systems for anti infantry and clearing any foot resistance as the Tau front line captures ground.

One Scorpionfish in the force should be able to take an upgrade of Tau Supreme Commander + Deflector Shields as a command option. I dont think that the Deflector shields should be on the standard Scorp. This is a behind-the-front-line support unit. It is not designed to be used in an assault and therefore should not need the additional field protection.

I dont think that this beast required AA fire. There is already a comprehensive choice of AA defence units to keep close and support. For the same reaosn, I dont suppose that it requres Markerlights.

Name - Personally, I dont like 'Arrowtooth'. White Shark is nice, but implies a flier. Stonefish is good. I have no problem with the '-fish' and it takes it away from yet another 'Scorpion'. However, since this thing is mentioned by name in IA3, I think that we should stick with it and use this as a guiding principle.

So, we are left with:

Scorpionfish

A formation consists of one or two Scorpionfish, at 225 points each.

Stats
Type: War Engine
Speed: 25cm
Armour: 5+
CC: 6+
FF: 6+

Variable Munitions Launcher
Either: 4x Tracer Missiles : 75cm : MW6+ : Guided
Or: 6x Seeker Missiles : 75cm : AT6+ : Guided
Or: 6x Submunitions Missiles : 75cm : AP5+ : Guided, Ignore Cover

And: 2x Twin Linked Missile Pod : 45cm : AT4+/AT4+

Notes: Damage Capacity: 3. Critical Hit Effect: The primary munitions store is hit, igniting the payload internally and ripping the vehicle apart from the inside. All units within 5cm suffer a single AP6+/AT6+ hit.
Skimmer, Reinforced Armor.

This is looking good.

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Tactica

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 4:43 am

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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am
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Right - case closed!

Print it!

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dysartes

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:08 am

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Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:16 pm
Posts: 908

Just remember to change the name to Arrowtooth before you do

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thurse

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:23 am

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Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2006 3:13 pm
Posts: 185
Location: Dundee, Scotland

This is looking good.

Yep!, I'm looking forwarding to playtesting that!
However, as it is, I fear that it is going to replace my beloved stingray every time

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orkybob

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 12:11 pm

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Joined: Mon Nov 28, 2005 4:32 pm
Posts: 78

Hi Guys,

This is a great idea however do we need some clarification in the description that states you choose which type of missle each turn rather than at the start of a battle?

I'm not sure what rule is standard. The Ork Oddboyz have the choice of the weapon (Supa-Zzap-Gun OR Soopagun) before the battle, however the Eldar Phantom Titan can use its power fist in one of 3 ways (choice made in the relevant turn I suspect).

These two are fairly common sense as the ork gun must be bolted on before the battle, however the power fist can use which ever weapon is suitable at the time (ie it doesn't need to change hardware) . However with a variable missle launcher it could be argued that the choice of missles loaded into the vehicle should be decided before the battle (ie its not obvious that all possibilities are carried at all times). I think it would be wise to make this clear right at the start of using this approach and only needs a quick section in the notes.

look forward to trying out this newly revised vehicle!!

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The_Real_Chris

Post subject: V4.4 - Scorpionfish and Dragonfish

Posted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 1:17 pm

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Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

Overall - missile pods, switch them for markerlights - then it can defend itself at a similar range.

Missiles. Yes, very good idea - however the profile makes it look like I fire MW, AT or AP, what sort of mix can i have?

Ironically this makes it less effective at engaging mixed formations and plays away from the idea of the best missile for the job.

A simpler way of doing it, and one that needs no faq or explanation is simply having Variable missile launcher - Range 75cm - AP5+/AT6+, guided missile (obviously, the number of them would be between 6-8 I guess)
A plus point for me is that its not an anti infantry in cover monster as I think such things are no fun to fight with infantry heavy armies.
MW wise if it is an armour killer its either a lot of AT shots or MW, though MW is a more guarentied weapon, AT is better against horde armour (a poblem for Tau who seem to have good AT values but not many of them).

The best missile for a job bit of fluff would be in the unit description.

Name wise, what was wrong with Bullhead again? - You could have missile launhers like horns!

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