Updated force list, phase one |
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asaura
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one  Posted: Sat Nov 19, 2005 8:07 am |
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| Quote (Tactica @ 18 Nov. 2005 (19:57)) | | Hopefully it works to answer your question about 40K infantry though Asaura, |
I think it does, thanks a bunch!
To sum it up, both Epic and 40K model the ability of agile light infantry to use cover by giving them a terrain cover save. Bulky and clumsy units like Terminators get less benefit from cover, since they have high (armor) saves in the first place.
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baronpiero
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 12:12 am |
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Clusewitz
Perhaps we could add to the "Tau Jet Pack" rule that "units equipped with Tau Jet Packs automatically pass dangerous terrain checks". ?That would allow crisis to use terrain like woods without penalty.
Would this pacify the opposing factions? |
Mmmh... it seems unwieldy to create a variant of the existing walkers special rule. Doing so adds unnecessary complication to the game as a whole. Just think back about 40K V3, when various armies had different versions of special rules such as fearless, tank hunters etc. Those have been streamlined in V4. We'd rather think twice before adding a special rule and in this particular case, we'd better live with walkers.
Tneva82
But should crisises be able to enter forrests etc without danger? They can't do that in 40k anyway.
And with walker chance of failing it is 1/36, sixth of 40k danger! |
This is a very good example where 40K doesn't translate to epic 1:1...
In 40K, Jetpacks make entering difficult terrain dangerous. But in Epic, it does not. And surprisingly for the 40K player, an assault Marine is able to enter woods/ruins at ease in Epic.
Applying Epic 'logic' now, a vehicle having legs should be made a walker. Jetpacks has nothing to do with this and there is a precedent to this with the Revenant titan, that combines Jetpacks + Walker as well.
As a more general point, I don't think everything is good to take from 40K. Inspiring ourselves from 40K is interesting as a first draft. It's also good to try to stick to it as long as we can, because making game systems consistant one another retains some 'design beauty'. But then you don't have to stick to every 40K bit.
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N0-1_H3r3
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one Posted: Sun Nov 20, 2005 1:47 am |
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2005 9:29 pm
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Location: Reading, Berkshire, UK
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| Quote (baronpiero @ 19 Nov. 2005 (23:12)) | This is a very good example where 40K doesn't translate to epic 1:1...
In 40K, Jetpacks make entering difficult terrain dangerous. But in Epic, it does not. And surprisingly for the 40K player, an assault Marine is able to enter woods/ruins at ease in Epic. |
There's another difference though - what counts as ruins or buildings in Epic is different to what might count as the same thing in 40k - a cluster of buildings might all count as the same terrain piece in Epic, while those same buildings in 40k would be a number seperate terrain pieces, around and above which a Crisis suit are highly mobile without a great deal of risk.
I can only speak for myself, but I'm for having Broadsides susceptible to AT fire (LV or AV, either is ok). Crisis suits could be either inf or LV. I like LV better, but I do agree that the troubles with entering woods and ruins can be a problem with that. |
I still personally can't see, beyond a number of 40k-related reasons (which, when relating to 40k tactics, I tend not to consider, as 40k tactics are generally based on exploitation of the rules, not of the situations on the battlefield), why they should be susceptible to AT fire, but that's presently beside the point. A Broadside isn't notably bigger than a Crisis - they're built from exactly the same chassis - and suggesting that one be treated differently from the other is no different from saying that a Rhino or Devilfish should be treated differently to a Predator or Hammerhead because the latter has a bigger gun on the top than the former. IMO, define what they are, and put them both in that category - splitting them up sets something of a double-standard.
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Irondeath
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 9:38 pm |
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Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:36 pm
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| Quote (RedDevil @ 24 Nov. 2005 (05:35)) | | Woh woh, Crisis suits can enter any terrain that infantry can without damge. ?You can always choose to "Walk" in 40k, and since the Jetpack moves as fast as a "walking" unit, they can walk just as far as they can "Jet" in the movement phase. ?This is a commonly used tactic, as you can jump out of dangerous terrain with no danger of damage. ?It's only jumping in that risks damage, and I already mention that is solved by electing to walk. ?So its false to say that they can't enter forests in 40K, therefore they shouldn't be able to in Epic. |
...de-lurks...
E:A has a similiar mechanic, see
1.8.1 Dangerous Terrain Test
Roll a D6 when you enter dangerous terrain, or when you
start to move if already in dangerous terrain. On a roll of
1, the unit is destroyed with no save allowed, but the
formation it is part of does not receive a Blast marker.
Units may choose to move through dangerous terrain
cautiously. A unit that is moving cautiously counts as
having a speed of 5cm, but is allowed to re-roll any
Dangerous Terrain tests that it fails. |
Although I?m under the impression that this isn?t widely known. At least at the german October tourney it wasn?t...
...re-lurks... 
_________________ Visit www.epic-battles.de the ultimate german epic site&forum!
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:13 pm |
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Location: Singapore
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OK, to get to the heart of the matter...
What is it about the Infantry/Light Vehicle debate that people want to see? As far as I can tell, the mainly Tau players (with exceptions, granted) go for Infantry for these, based on the fact that they should be able to go where the infantry go. The others seem to be split between the two options, but the LV speakers seem to favour this as the unit can then be targetted by all weapons.
Now, if this is indeed the case, it would seem that a half-way could be reached, as these two cases are not exclusive. For example, Light Vehicles, with an addition to the Tau Jet Pack rule stating that any unit with a Tau Jet Pack which moves at no more than 15cm is treated as Infantry for all terrain types.
Now, I realise that this wont please everyone and that the issue is more complicated than this, but would go part-way to a solution?
[Disclaimer: The above is not suggested as a final decision and may not even be sensible, so please dont shoot it down as missing the point without making the point. Thanks.]
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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Steele
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Post subject: Updated force list, phase one Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2005 2:48 pm |
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Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am
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Location: Duisburg , Germany
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 25 Nov. 2005 (14:13)) | OK, to get to the heart of the matter...
What is it about the Infantry/Light Vehicle debate that people want to see? As far as I can tell, the mainly Tau players (with exceptions, granted) go for Infantry for these, based on the fact that they should be able to go where the infantry go. The others seem to be split between the two options, but the LV speakers seem to favour this as the unit can then be targetted by all weapons.
Now, if this is indeed the case, it would seem that a half-way could be reached, as these two cases are not exclusive. For example, Light Vehicles, with an addition to the Tau Jet Pack rule stating that any unit with a Tau Jet Pack which moves at no more than 15cm is treated as Infantry for all terrain types.
Now, I realise that this wont please everyone and that the issue is more complicated than this, but would go part-way to a solution?
[Disclaimer: The above is not suggested as a final decision and may not even be sensible, so please dont shoot it down as missing the point without making the point. Thanks.] |
So, you want... thought about making all Battlesuits LV? And adding this to the Jet Pack Rule? Good Idea so far. But will that silence those that want a pure Infantry out of them? I suppose not. Same could be done if you revert that thing: Make them Infantry and say if they move more than 10cm into dangerous terrain for LV/AV they must take a test. Still don?t solves the shooting issue AT/AP ->LV .But reflects the bulk of the Greater Suits and their possible problems in unsteady terrain. Makes sense?
Cheers!
Steele
_________________
Quid pro Quo
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However, I will be drawing heavily on v4.2.8 for inspirations, etc.