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Crisis unit survivability
Tactica	Post subject: Crisis unit survivability Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:41 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hmmm... now I'll have investigate that... I'm not an ork player, but have fielded them a couple times. What you are saying makes sense... I know he had two dreads and three coptors, rest were kans and he had 8 models in these formations... hmmm... I'm pretty sure I have the unit count correct in the batrep summary above too... I'll check with him. Thanks NH, _________________ Rob
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Steele	Post subject: Crisis unit survivability Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:30 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 6:40 am Posts: 423 Location: Duisburg , Germany	Quote (Tactica @ 26 2005 Aug.,23:59) permanent wound too thus far in turn 4, and he had no chance of taking out my 2 moray formation which was well hid. 'wave' Rob Hi, How do you hide Morays? How many models were on the Orc side? (Infantry). What was the major hindering in taking out the Gargant? How many HH did you take? Why didn?t you take any Whitesharks? Beside the first question, i am asking cause I still have to stand against my Orc Opponent. Cheers! Steele _________________ Quid pro Quo
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Tactica	Post subject: Crisis unit survivability Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 4:44 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Hi, How do you hide Morays? Hey Steele, Thanks for the questions, LOL - perhaps a poor choice of words, but what I meant was that they retreated to my board edge with their 40cm withdrawal move after being broken - this put them out of range of the slow moving orcs. How many models were on the Orc side? (Infantry).

Well, from my original post (which was from memory so I may have it off by one or two models):
His list was something like:


Gargant (7 shields + 8BP MW shot + grot droppings)
Custom Gargant (5 shields + 8BP MW shot + grot droppings)
Supa-Stompa (1 shield + 6BP MW shot) + 9 Stompas + AA upgrades
Supa-Stompa (1 shield + 6BP MW shot) + 9 Stompas + AA upgrades
Landa
- 2 dreads, 3 killa-kans + 3 deathcoptas
Landa
- 2 dreads, 3 killa-kans + 3 deathcoptas
9 Fighter-Bombas


2 Gargants (8 DC + 6 DC)
18 tanks
2 war engines on the ground (3DC x2)
2 War Engine Aircraft: Bombers (3DC x2)
10 armored vehicles (dreads & kans)
6 light vehicles (Kopters)
9 Aircraft: fighter bombers

So what is that, something like
49 models (24+ had RA, 4 had shields)
71 damage total

6 points of the 71 damage could have come from AP shots, everything else was an AT only target! (last week, he played the complete opposite - almost all infantry!)


What was the major hindering in taking out the Gargant?
Well, he kept them hid in the back of his lines and was using them as a support role more than a main assault role. His army was designed to be a shooting army first, and a h-t-h army as necessary and as a second role.

He had 7 shields on the one the majority of my army had LOS too. It was supported by both stompa formations on either side of it. The stompas were the break their spirt victory condition. If I would have focused on the gargant, I would not have been able to take out one of the stompa mobs (which I didn't complete that task until turn 3). Tau can't fight in CC to save their but, so 7 shields plus 8 DC at 4+ RA and Thick Rear meant that was an all day job for the tau. We just don't have the titan killing potential as the list is currently designed. The moorays railgun main weapon is flawed currently as a slow firing system - so there's no way I ever take that. I always go with the ion-phalanx as - like the rest of my army - I like to use the model each turn... especially when it costs 600 points for the two of them. My main At potential came from the morays, HH's, and broadsides as a result.

The gargants were devistating against my lines, but I really had no hope to take them out - break one of them perhaps, but not going to take them out. The stompas were just an easier formation to deal with as their numbers could be dwindled as blast markers were stacked and they were the better choice for the tau army to try to deal with.


How many HH did you take?

Hmm.... lets see, from my original post:



FW+devilfish+(ion)hammerheads

3 Rail-head + 2 Ion-head + Swordfish
3 Rail-head + 2 Ion-head + Swordfish



So, If my math is good, thats 12 + 2 swordfish. Depending upon whether you see Swordfish as hammerheads too... 12-14 is the answer to your question.

Outside of these, the 4 broadsides and 2 morrays... my AT potential was down to what... 4 crisis+stealth+drones and 1 scorpionfish... and neither of these formations are known for their At prowess in my games.


Why didn?t you take any Whitesharks?

First, I usually do take Whitesharks (used to be the old version, and I had been playtesting the new version) however, I don't really feel like they do what they should do for their points. I think they should be TK D3 instead of TK1 in order to fit their role, and for a potential return on our investment.

Second, I played the orc player twice before recently. Once he took almost all LV and Infantry. The second time (last week) he played an almost entirely infantry army outside of a single gargant and some flak wagons buried in huge mobs. The gargant in that game didn't do squat (primarily due to placement and corner objective holding on his table edge)

Third, this was a rematch from last weeks game. We ended up calling that game and we both said we should go tune our lists, start earlier in the day and increase the points to see how the lists really face off - and all the accompanied trash talking and scheming that goes with such conversations. I fully expected this guy to show up with speed freaks, feral, or all infantry orcs again - and maybe a single stompa or gargant mob. I thought he would fill the list out a bit with battlewagons and battlefortresses too to gain some speed.

Fourth, I didn't even consider the prospect of him fielding OGBM. In our group, we don't consider AMTL as IG and we don't consider OGBM as orcs in general. So I was very blindsided by all of this.

Besides, the whitesharks have their own problems against this list. Even if I did actually value the 2 maingun shots I get from the formation of whitesharks, the orc player has 9 fighter-bombers he always runs... he had those in this game. He also had the AA upgrade on ALL of his stompas... 9 stompas in each formation at 45cm 3x AA 6+ is a LOT of AA potential that would have made the whitesharks really dead had I flown inthe middle of them to deal with the gargant which was causing me the most problems.

Hindsight being 20/20 - whitesharks would have been the worst decision I could have made. However, had I known I was playing against the OGBM, I would surely have put them in... again, hindsight being 20/20 - I'm glad I didn't.

The barracuda's 90' turns were much more effective at avoiding most of the AA fire, though 2 of 6 planes went down in one turn and only got close to 2 of 9 stompas on exit! I'm telling you - the AA he had was sick...


Beside the first question, i am asking cause I still have to stand against my Orc Opponent.

Cheers!
Steele

No worries, hopefully I've answered your questions. LMK,