Shockingly brilliant in its simplicity, Neal!

Are Tau tanks considered "fast" in 40k?

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Now all of this was based on pre 5.0 release so take it with a pinch of salt.

The AX-1-0's felt ok for the points. Barracuda's failed too many activations to really get a feel for them.

With the amount of markerlights I took (tetra's and skyrays) I had no shortage of markerlights. I'm slightly unsure about 90cm but again much more testing will be required to confirm my initial gut feeling.

The all skimmer was taken to basically remove CC from the opposition. Against marines this does take away the one advantage they normally have.

That's going to hit Orks and Tyranids pretty hard as well.

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Yep, its the big selling point for a tournament tau army. One method of being attacked is gone. However next time I'll make sure I only have one formation as a BTS!  

So maybe, instead of ditching the armor formation, it should be made so that it's points value prevents it from being abusive. Consider this: could a space marine player take all land speeders and be competitive? It seems doubtful to me. Remember, there is nothing out of the ordinary about having a formation with a point cost that doesn't equal the sum of the point costs of its units.

As for changing the Tau tanks from skimmer to jump pack, that would mean that they couldn't perform pop-up attacks anymore. Are you really willing to give that up?

On losing pop up, I can't think of any fluff that supports Tau vehicles doing 'pop ups' in any event, and they are portrayed as nimble hovering tanks not helicopter gunships.  

Perhaps jump packs thus would help with list power and fluffiness.

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I'm not offering this point to shoot down the Jump Pack idea, but let's do keep in mind the historical context where all previous versions of the Tau looked for guidance.

Up until recently, all Tau vehicles were able to "pop up" over terrain features and hover over them while firing in 40K. So, I would say that there is a historical precedent for allowing the tanks to pop up and skim.

I will not deny that skimmers take away the CC values of units, but I seem to hear a tone behind the comment as if the Tau are FF monsters or that you can't attack them. They are not and you do not. So, yes, when you assault the Tau you give up your CC against them, but you may still FF them to death.

Just to make a point, not generalize, but are not tactical marines 4's across the board? What about Dev's they are 3's correct? So it's not like the SM's just stand there and look at the Tau floating over their heads.

Orks aren't that great at FF, but then you do tend to have a ton (metric or otherwise) of opportunities.

I'm sure there are counterbalancing arguments to the contrary, but it's very difficult to see this argument like all the rest of the armies are missing their pants in a game because the Tau skim.

I don't want that to sound harsh, because that is not my intent, but have you ever considered why a lot of Tau players fear assaults?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

No.

Also, while I like Neal's idea if it solves problems, in re: Moscovian's batrep, I don't see how Marines, in particular, are that badly affected by the skimmer rule when it comes to assaults. Only 3 units in the list (Assault Marines, Scouts, Bikes) are directly affected, with lower FF values than CC, and a couple are even enhanced by it (not that anyone assaults that often with Devastators...) Terminators and Tac Squads are utterly unaffected.

Now, Orks are another story entirely, so there's certainly an argument to be made that an all skimmer tank list would be difficult for Ork armies (happy to let the Ork expert, Neal, chime in here) but you're still talking about formations that are so small as to still be adversely affected by suppression and breaking like all other Tau formations.

OK, then. Different typo (275 for 2 Tigersharks, rather than 175.)

Er... why?  How many war engines are you typically facing?

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Onyx, an armored list is possible because you limit it the same way you limit every other list.  The IG and Eldar both have armored variants.  Minervans, for instance, have challenges of activation count built into the list.  While the list isn't perfect, there are few tweaks that need to be added in order to bring it into balance.  I certainly don't see them winning or losing in excess.

Onyx, if you have the time I am wagering you could put together a pretty decent Armored Variant right out the get-go.

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With an "armoured focus", such an army list could have different point costs for formations to "pay" for the abilities that present "issues"... which wouldn't come up in a "combined arms" list.

Other limits, such as fewer activations, no access to certain other units, and other changes would differentiate it from the current "core" list.

In the current list, I can take "full" AMHC formations, and then cheaper "support" formations... also of Hammerheads!  An "armoured focus" list would probably get rid of the "cheap" tank formatiosn and bulk up core formations instead.

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The IG and Eldar both have armored variants.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Actually Honda, I don't think that is the core of the argument.

In the peer review comments you posted it was suggested that Hammerheads be limited to support for background reasons or more importantly simplification.

Size of list - Overall I still think the list just has too many options to ever  really be sure its balanced. It  feels like 3 lists in one, Fire warrior base, Crisis suit based and armoured  cadre based. Without a true focus  balancing everything for tournaments will be a long and arduous process.