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Manta Missile Destroyer

Tactica

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 7:01 pm

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Moray - cool. Thanks Neal.

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 1:15 am

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Here's a question:

Should Piranhas and Tetras fit more than 1 per HH space in the vehicle bay?

Perhaps 2 Piranhas or 3 Tetras could take up the same space as 1 Hammerhead (they aren't all that large in comparison) - plus it would allow a Tetra contingent with 4 Piranhas added on to be dropped via Manta at once.

Gary

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clausewitz

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 12:55 pm

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Should Piranhas and Tetras fit more than 1 per HH space in the vehicle bay?

I am curious, why would you want to transport those units in a Manta anyway? Is it just for the background rational of "how do they get to the surface"?

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 4:53 pm

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Tetras ands Piranhas would be among the first types of formations one could envisage a Tau commander deploying to a planetary surface, and since the Orca can't do it, the Manta would be a preferred choice.

Picture it: The same Manta can drop (if we allow for more 2 Piranhas and 3 Tetras per Hammerhead slot) a T+P Contingent, 2 contingents of Stealth Teams, one with 4 squadrons of Drones or 3 more Stealth Teams added on.

Of course, the Tetra + Piranha formation could be replaced by regular Pathfinders aboard their Devilfish, with 4 Piranhas, or 3 Tetras plus another Devilfish and 2 Pathfinder stands added on to the formation.

Seems like a logical means of getting the forward deployment formations onto the surface - or extracting them from the same.

Gary

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clausewitz

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:40 pm

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Nerroth, what you are saying makes perfect sense. I understand that this sort of thing would happen in the background.
However, my question was more if this was necessary in the EA Tau army list. Would anyone actually use this in a game?

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:58 pm

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Of course, if the scenario you are playing involves the first landings of these formations onto the surface (perhaps the landing zone turned out not to be quite as secure a site as hoped, so the Manta, a Moray or two and some Barras and 'Sharks are called on to help out! Plus, there could well be Orca drops of Stealth or Crisis teams at the same time...)

Also, if you planetfall the formations in turn 1, you can deploy those markerlight formations in useful positions on the battlefield, plus march the Manta to another part of the table if necessary.

Of course, you may well choose another role for the Manta, but the option should be there for what I describe above.

So do people agree that the space taken by 1 Hammerhead = space for 2 Piranhas = space for 3 Tetras?

Gary

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Tactica

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 10:06 pm

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I would recommend we seek IA3 40K manta for guidance. If that's not clear, I would recommend talking with Forgeworld on what their 40K intentions are for the Manta's bays.

That would directly coorelate to E:A in theory for this large of a model and a vehicle in a vehicle question.

However, in principle, yes, I don't think you are being unreasonable in your proposition of 2-1 LV to AV.

Clausewitz has an interesting perspective... is it a rule for completeness or because it would be 1) used and 2) contributes to the list in some meaningful way?

Cheers,

Cheers,

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 3:11 pm

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Well, If (big if) I were to allow the use of a Manta in a Gue'senshi list, or if I were using a T'au list and deploying a forward Cadre in a scenario, yes I'd like the use of the extra room in the bays.

Remember, the Tetras and Piranhas are already available to be transported by a Manta, what I propose merely modifies the allowance to better suit the size difference between a Tetra, a Piranha and a Hammerhead!

Gary

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RedDevil

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 6:22 am

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Two LV's per vehicle space sounds fine to me.

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Tactica

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2005 3:07 pm

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Nerroth,

I'm not opposed to the suggestion right now.

I differ to the masses as I may not have given this proper consideration yet.

I'd like to consider the maximum effectiveness of a planetfall and assault by on board troops... what is the 'best' combination for this tacitc if we 'did' allow 2 LV per vehicle space.

I don't mind if the tactic works occassionally or against the unsupecting individual, but if it gets too good where the tactic is always or even commonly used - then we have common tau assaulting situations via planetfall support and that gets a bit out of character.

cheers,

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 2:40 am

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Well, I had a rummage through IA3 and found some interesting nuggets...

(BTW, you know that an Orca can carry Tetras?)

Anyway, according to IA3, 3 Tetras can take up the place of 1 Devilfish-sized vehicle (based on being able to place up to 12 Tetras instead of the 4 AVs), so we're partway there...

Now, IA3 also says that each Piranha takes up the same space as a Hamerhead, but I'd say that the Piranha is small enough to fit in 2 to a HH slot (does this seem fair, based on the size difference for the models themselves?)

Which brings me back to the 6T+4P formation I mentioned earlier.

In my view, such a formation - coupled with any drones taken in the other transport decks - would be mainly an advantage in specific scenarios based around the initial incursions into a theatre, the 'night of the 5th of June' parachute drops to the main force's '6th of June' of Mantas dropping HHs, Crisis and Broadside teams etc.

So, picture this loadout:

Manta
6 Tetras
4 Piranhas
Stealth Contingent (6)
Stealth Contingent (6)
Drone addition to T+P formation/Stealth - or just Gun Drone Squadron(4)

Or, replace the second Stealth team with footslogging Pathfinders, with two more stands to fill out the transport capacity.

Or, with the Gue'senshi:
6 Tetras
4 Piranhas
Grenadier Company (8)
Markerlight Platoon (2)
Pathfinder Contingent (4)
More Pathfinders (2)

That assumes I let the Manta be used in a Gue'senshi army at all - I'm thinking 0-1, maybe allowing it to carry Valkyries or Vultures.

Thoughts?

Gary

The point is not that it will be a common tactic against

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Legion 4

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 5:44 am

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Gue' & Kroot should be allowed to use any Tau transport, IMO ...

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colonel_sponsz

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 4:29 pm

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I don't see why Gue' and Kroot shouldn't be able to use Tau transports but I think it would be much less common than their use for transporting Tau units - especially in the case of the Manta at the level of an Epic battle.

Generally I see the Tau transports being used to move the Gue' and Kroot into position before a battle or to re-position them during an engagement if the situation required it.

I don't think it would be much of a problem to allow Gue' and Kroot to have access to to transports as I suspect most people would still use them to transport Tau execept in specialist circumstances, which is about right.

Orde

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Nerroth

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:03 pm

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Well, I've more or less narrowed it down to only needing to transport Valkyries and Vultures (probably modified to have folding wings in the bay, as Xisor says) in a Manta - Russes, Chimerae and the SHTs would be dropped via Courier.

Besides, if there is one Gue'senshi formation which would be worth deploying via Manta into the thick of things, it would be the Airborne Grenadier Company!

(The question is: should the Manta stats in the main T'au list necessarily stste that it can carry Valks and Vultures, or should I just include a relevant note in the Gue'senshi list?)

Also, do people agree with the 2 Piranhas per slot idea I have, as well as the IA3 listing of 3 Tetras per slot?

Gary

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clausewitz

Post subject: Manta Missile Destroyer

Posted: Sun Dec 04, 2005 10:25 pm

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I would leave the Manta in the main Tau list without reference to Valkyries and Vultures. Saves possible confusion. I would put the adjustments in the Gue'senshi list.

I agree the airborne company seems appropriate for transport by Manta.

And I also wouldn't agrue with 2 Piranhas per Hammerhead transport slot.

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